drclaw

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Was cleaning my newly acquired Order of the Lion and Sun with some soapy water when the centre medallion with the lion and sun, the back medallion and the five enamel rays all fell apart from the silver medal! After the initial heart attack moment, I discovered that the only thing that was holding the medal together was 100 year old "glue" made from water-soluble vegetable gum. It looked similar to the yellow gum you see on old envelopes. After carefully setting aside the fragile loose elements, I went to town on cleaning the silver medal: first with a toothbrush and soap, and then with an ultrasonic cleaner. As a result, I can now see every pin-point detail of the original craftsmanship. After drying the medal and polishing it with a silver polish cloth, I re-assembled it using a "glue" made by mixing sugar and water. While I wouldn't want to be jangling it in a parade, the sugar glue bonds well enough to hold the elements together for static display. If I need to clean the medal again in the future, or decide to restore / re-enamel the green rays, I can dissolve the "glue" again with water. So what could have been a horror story turned out okay in the end and I've learnt something new about the hobby. Anyone have any Lions and Suns to share? I believe this one is a Civil Division, Third Class, dated between 1872-1925. Apologies for the light reflection from the silver. --- On the Order of the Lion and Sun, www.qajarpages.org/qajorders.html is an excellent source of information, as well as earlier forum postings: The Order of the Lion and Sun was instituted by Fath Ali Shah (reign 1797-1834) in the Qajar (Kadjar) Dynasty. It was bestowed on military men and civillians, both native and foreign. The Order underwent various changes through different reigns in terms of the number of classes and categories. For military recipients, the lion was shown standing holding a raised sword in one paw, with the sun having a male face. For civilian recipients, the lion was shown reclining, with the sun having a female face. In 1872, five classes were established for foreigners and Persian civil servants, on the pattern of the French Legion d'honneur. The different classes were represented by the number of points in the framing star: from eight for the first class to four for the fifth class. Higher classes also had a more central "rings" around the medallion. Before 1856, the insignia was richly jewelled in diamonds, or rubies and sapphires. Later orders were produced in polished silver with the lion having a small Qajar crown above it (though not in insignia manufactured abroad). After 1872, the small Qajar crown above the lion and sun device no longer appeared. With the overthrow of the Qajar Dynasty by the Pahlavi Dynasty in 1925, a new system of official honours was instituted. The five classes of the Lion and Sun for civilians persisted under the name Homayoun. [note the Qajar website describes the Momayoun as a 'replacement' or 'modernised version' of the Lion and Sun, while it appears to be a completely new Order] The Order of Homayoun was a simplified and modernised version of the Qajar Lion and Sun. The badge consisted of a central medallion bearing an enameled disk of the lion with upraised sword and the rising sun with five rays, framed within an eight-pointed star. The star was also uperimposed upon a sunburst with eight points. There was also a Homayoun medal with three grades of gold, silver and bronze intended for lower-ranking civil servants, which ceased to be awarded in the last decades of the Pahlavi dynasty.

Lovely Lambert! Could you show us a photo of the obverse? If it is in the same condition as the reverse, it will be stunning.

Yes, small mint mark and I am guessing it is early 20th century from the overall design of the medal. But I'm still expanding my knowledge base on these orders so I can't say that with any authority.

Order of Medjidie, Third Class, that arrived today. Sent to me by my new friend Mr Avsar Ibar from Istanbul (www.avsaribar.com). I'm really enjoying the variations in design between different periods and different makers. Makes collecting these a fascinating hobby. Gavin

Well, it's back again and at 399,000 yen (USD 5000) and another 3 days to ago. Truly a magnificent set, but at those prices you are quickly heading into Double Dragon territory.

Paul, do you mean 6th classes in general, or only 6th class Meiji? I managed to pick up a 6th class Showa from Yahoo Japan. It was a little pricey at 29,000 yen (plus 8% for the middleman) but - from the photos at least - the medal, ribbon and case appeared pristine (will know for sure when it arrives ...). So didn't mind paying a little more for my very first kite. Also picked up a 7th class early Meiji (cased, bow rosette) from ebay for what I thought to be a good price. Thanks to Paul's article on dating Kites, I could vaguely discern from the very fuzzy photos that the third wing feather was the longest. Seller confirmed it to be so so now just waiting for the package to arrive. Gavin

Yes, the centre medallion did rotate when I was cleaning it. Will re-set it back now to the original position.

Thanks Lambert and hello to a fellow land of the Southern Cross inhabitant. The age of the Order was certainly a surprise and makes me appreciate the patina even more. She has travelled 150 years to be in my possession so deserves to remain untouched by any cleaning cloth! Cheers, Gavin

Here it is. My very first Order of Medjidie. I've given it a light clean with soapy water and found a spare medal case from a Bulgarian Order of the Red Flag of Labour. No markings on the reverse of the medal. So I'm guessing it is an earlier Order of Medjidie. Perhaps even Crimean era? Thank you everyone for helping out a newbie with advice and encouragement. I'm definitely hooked on these orders now! Gavin

Thanks Dieter, that's very helpful. I did notice differences in clasp of the case, and of the rosette, but always good to have the full picture by an expert. Short of taking photos to my favourite sushi take-away, it might be time to enrol in a Japanese class.

Lovely item Dieter! I'm looking at this particular one and had a question on dating. How do you tell - other than overall wearing of the case and tarnishing on the metal - if a 7th class is a pre-1945 or a later issue? For instance, I can tell the 5th and 6th classes are pre-1945 because of the four rivets on the reverse. Are there any similar indicators for dating a 7th and 8th class? Gavin

What a lovely piece Dieter! Thanks for posting it. The richness of the greens just leap out from the screen. Certainly reinforces my interest in Japanese orders. All the best, Gavin

I did notice that particular item and the description "Turkish manufacturer". Hopefully Rarusnet would do the right thing when people "Ask Us About a Price" by disclosing it is a fake. I wish to say how much I valued the genorosity of contributors on this forum in sharing their advice and years of knowledge. It certainly helped me avoid this particular Australian fake when I saw it on ebay three weeks ago. There is nothing more discouraging for a newbie, and damaging to the hobby, to discover his first item to be a fake. The advice on this forum certainly helps people avoid that. Avsar, I learnt from one of the other posters that you have a shop in Istanbul. I've sent you an email through your website (www.avsaribar.com). I'd like to return your genorosity by supporting your shop if I can.

Thanks Emanuel. Yes I did buy the one from broof and am pleased to be dealing with a decent seller. He has lovely items and his webstore (Rarusnet) is a great source of information. I also purchased a Greek post-1974 Order of the Phoenix from the same auction. All the best.

Thanks Emanuel. Yes I did buy the one from broof and pleased to be dealing with a decent seller. He has lovely items and his webstore (Rarusnet) is a great source of information. I also purchased a Greek post-1974 Order of the Phoenix from the same auction - one of the most beautiful orders I have ever seen. All the best.

Thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge and your photos. I have today purchased my very first Order of Mejidie - hopefully genuine! They are beautiful works of art.

This is currently available on ebay from Australia (Elite militaria) for around USD 695. As someone who is still learning about these orders, the item would appear to raise some concerns for an "1860 Crimea War Grand Cross": (1) star and crescents placed on top the tallest rays, as opposed to between them (2) centre appears to be a lighter shade of red, as opposed to a deep dark red (3) rear - appears to be a single cast piece as opposed to separate "leaves" joined together (4) very "shiny" for a 150 year old item. Would I be correct? Are there any other details of this particular item that also jump out as concerns? I am keen to develop my knowledge on what are a very beautiful category of orders.

Folks, I have just started collecting Japanese orders and wish to express my thanks to all the contributors on this forum. The photos and expert advice posted has been invaluable to a newbie - both in exciting the interest, and in helping avoid potentially expensive mistakes. Thank you once again. Happy collecting for 2011.