saschaw

It's not much I can add here: He's still listed as alive (of course!) in Baden's Hof- und Staatshandbuch 1892, and is titled "K. Preuß. Geh. Kommerzienrath". His name, however, is spelled "Adolf" in this Baden source. But that doesn't make too big of a difference, I guess...

On 06/02/2022 at 01:05, Deutschritter said:

(still wondering, if he may have received EK I ... maybe posthumously?):

A posthumous award sounds very unlikely to me. I'm not 100 % sure but think it was not possible at all in Prussia, or at least highly unusual. I cannot help with the promotion dates though, sorry.

On 30/01/2022 at 02:44, Deutschritter said:

Stern mit Eichenlaub und Schwertern zum Roten Adlerorden II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub und Schwertern am Ringe

Isn't this supposed to be a "Stern mit Eichenlaub und Schwertern am Ringe zum Roten Adlerorden II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub und Schwertern am Ringe"? I don't see how he could have received another war decoration at this point.

Also, the only lower grade with swords that is mentioned in the 1895 Königlich Preußische Ordens-Liste alongside his Grand Cross is the 4th class cross from the German war in 1866...

Working on the assumption that "Brunswick" ribbon may actually be the mentioned Papal one instead, I found another suspect in the Prussian 1907 rank list: Major Rauthe from Landwehrbezirk Metz with RAO4, DA, BZ3bE and PGr3:

What do you think, could it be his bar as well? Or am I the only one to believe these two ribbons, BrH3b and PGr3 are almost indistinguishable from each other... ?!

Thanks for the correction, BlackcowboyBS! This way, all makes so much more sense. Not sure how I confused them, or where I read this - but now things are cleared up. Thanks again!

6 hours ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

I love life saving medals and I am allways tempted to start a collection on them

If I weren't so much into Baden, life saving medals of the German states would probably be my first alternative choice... but I really don't have enough funds or space for another field of collecting!

Might you have something from Brunswick or Hanover that we haven't seen here before to share? I have been the only one to post actual medals in this thread for more than four(!) years... let's change that!

On 07/02/2022 at 01:53, Alan said:

Does anyone have a picture of him during the war?

You mean, one like this? I think that's a modern print from my archive, but it should get the job done...

Thanks, Daniel. As I assumed! This certainly nails the HOH3X for this bar, and makes its former wearer an officer, and not an enlisted man or a non-commissioned officer in the Bavarian army.

This one, being foreign, is actually off topic here, but the Ottoman "Tahlisiye Madalyasi", instituted in 1859, was awarded to so many Germans, especially marines, it might deserve its place here anyway.

Like the Bavarian medal I posted before, it could be awarded several times, but unlike it, these Ottoman medals would have different ribbons: red for the first, green for the second and white for the third award. For four (or more?) lifesavings, it would have a striped ribbon of the mentioned colours.

Or at least: that's what I found on the internet... it's surprising I ususally see them green ribboned, not red!

On 21/01/2022 at 23:49, saschaw said:

This one (...) was sold by 0179alwinkler. That's apparently the same seller that was active as nataliyaa123 (...)

Not sure how I could miss to mention, but we definitely have to add afanade2014 to very this little network. And: they're currently active!

Due to the fact it's an unofficial medal, as you already pointed out, the question for the correct ribbon is no easy one. Zeitz (in Zeitz, Joachim. Die Medaillen des Hauses Baden. Denkmünzen und Plaketten zur Geschichte des zähringen-badischen Fürstenhauses seit 1871. Band 2. Freiburg im Breisgau 1987, p. 229) does not show or mention a ribbon at all.

I think I have seen several examples with these triangular ribbons before. However, the only one mounted on a medal bar I have ever seen so far (and can remember) was on German ebay, like 15 years ago. I attached the image.

It is also not clear, at least not to me, if this medal was presented by the regimental commander or maybe the Offizierskorps des Regiments to the soldiers, or if it was simply a commercial souvenir anyone could obtain if they wanted to... (but probably the latter!?)

Another "ancient" thread probably worth being "bumped up"?! The complete list of awardees, by the way, was published more than ten years ago(!) by Eike Lehmann and late Dr. Gerd Scharfenberg! If you're interested, it's even available online as a pdf file on the Deutsche Gesellschaft für Ordenskunde homepage.

Also, here's two pictures of a Herzoglich Anhaltisches Marien-Kreuz that did "visit" me last year...

9 hours ago, v.Perlet said:

Or did I get something wrong here?

Seems to be! All negative comments referred to the thread starter, the cross posted by Marcin L, which is not an authentic one. Seeing the front side is not needed to be definitive, and it would certainly be no pleasure anyway. This is probably some ugly and rather recent full fake of an 1870 1st class cross!

On the other hand, ashley58's cross, as far as can be told from one small picture of the reverse, seems to be a textbook award type. Everything that I can see is how it's supposed to be. I'm not sure what doesn't "convince" you about it, but do wonder what references you're using on 1870 crosses...

Authentic pieces being talked to death by not too experienced collectors certainly is a problem on some forums, and one of my worst nightmares. In the past years, I tried to give my opinion only when I felt confident about it. Please keep in mind any footless comment can cause harm to a collector's finances or to a seller's reputation!

Link and Gauggel show such a cross, also uniface, but die struck - not cast. If yours is indeed cast, it's probably just a reproduction of that. Or might it actually be struck? However, they describe it as silvered only, without black paint, and according to them, the supposed ribbon is blue and white. No sources are given, but I have seen several of these over the time, and the all were just silvered and if ribboned, not like an Iron Cross. They assume it was instituted after the war by Fürst Wilhelm von Hohenzollern for this Bavarian regiment he used to be Chef of, but no sources are given.

It is also featured on the site ehrenzeichen-orden.de. They claim it might have been instituted by Fürst Wilhelm in 1925. Again, no sources.  I personally doubt this was given by the Fürst, and is probably just some souvenir the veterans could obtain. But neither do I have any sources...

See: Link, Eva und Gauggel, Heinz. Fürstlich Hohenzollernsche Orden und Ehrenzeichen. Fridingen 1985. p. 196/197.

23 hours ago, Glenn J said:

Musicians are a particular interest of mine.

That's good to know! I'm sure I'm having some few more in my collections or stocks!

On 25/01/2022 at 10:01, saschaw said:

Would you know if it's a knight's cross 1st or a knight's cross 2nd class?

Does someone... ? I'd guess BZ3aX, from the combination with SA3aX, but you never know...

What a beauty - my congratulations! I'm seeing submarine boat badges on ebay every day, but cannot even remember(!) the last authentic award type I have seen. All I can find is pieces like this one available now - and that's at the best!

In fact, I never had one of these at all, neither in my collection nor in my offerings... they're so hard to find!

Thank you for the explanation and help regarding the "missing" pictures, Eric Stahlhut and JohanH!

That Hohenlohe badge is a beauty! I don't know much about these, but it might be French made?

Wow, now that was fast. I hope it was less effort than in the olden days.

Thank you so much, Glenn!

13 hours ago, Glenn J said:

Heeres-Musikinspizient Oskar Hackenberger.

It's odd! I cannot find that Zähringer, neither in Roth's 1997 work, nor in Dave Danner's additions?! Would you know if it's a knight's cross 1st or a knight's cross 2nd class?

11 hours ago, Deutschritter said:

Militärverdienstorden (Bayern), Ritterkreuz I. Klasse (BMV3b)

... später in Bayerischer Militärverdienstorden IV. Klasse umbenannt (BMV4)

Not sure if that's just a typo or some contemporary mistake, but that would have to be a Ritterkreuz II. Klasse. The Ritterkreuz I. Klasse became the order's 3rd class with the new 1905 statutes. It was called BMV3a prior to that.

This group shot with our still unknown man was sold on ebay some years ago, and the seller certainly doesn't mind I'm using it here for educational purposes. Despite that photo is much smaller, the angle allows a better view. I'm seeing Hessen-Darmstadt's HMSK and, as originally supposed, Schaumburg-Lippe's SLK.

What I still don't see: a name to it! As Rick pointed out more than thirteen years ago (sic) he wouldn't be to be found in any Reichswehr rank list. Now that's stupid! But might anyone capable of doing the magic have another shot at this, anyway?

2 hours ago, David M said:

I also heard of names like: Kreuzwendedich. But I am not sure if thats reall.

It's indeed not often read or heard, but it certainly is real, and has a rather sad background. Please check Wikipedia, if you want, for the meaning and even a list of notable namebearers...

It's interesting to see him wear "pure Prussian" on one and his full entitlement on the other photo!

A beautiful bar that I would have loved to obtain as well, but... prices went pretty up for these, it seems. My first association with the last ribbon was a Papal Ordo Sancti Gregorii Magni... might that actually be another possibility?

On 22/01/2022 at 13:12, v.Perlet said:

What is The club?

That's short for a specific ebay seller, raritaetensammlerclub. They are also running a homepage, and some more ebay sellers, like cetra2003 and - with current auctions! - rittergut_von_mauntz seem to be closely "related". The so called Schrägstrich faker , however, is another network on their own. I'm not saying their stuff is actually different; they probably do have a common supplier...

Is it just me (or my device), or is something wrong with the photos in this topic? I cannot see them...

5 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

LOL, looks like 'the Club' was the purveyor of this pile of crap.

The club? Totally not, no. Their bars have a much different look. This one, according to my records, was sold by 0179alwinkler. That's apparently the same seller that was active as nataliyaa123 from at least 2010 to 2014... and from their dozens of medal bars and literally hundreds of single awards offered, I have hardly ever seen one piece that I would have liked...