saschaw

It would be better to have such a piece in hands than judging by just one picture. I am not sure about this cross! It's definitely no standard type and probably not an awarded cross, but, to be honest, I really don't see "poor detail overall". To me, this looks possibly convincing, with what seems like grounded and polished glass enamel - nothing I'd dismiss just from this picture. It may well be a foreign made wearer's copy. After all, those were widely spread all over Europe...

I only know what Mr. Thies states in his current advertise in the DGO magazine, and according to that, it's an authentic 1870 cross. He also has an 1914 Grand Cross shown there as well. As he doesn't mention provenience on any of them, I assume none is known, but only the catalog will show... anyway, none of them will be within my budget I guess.

I'm not sure if there is an "official" answer to the first question, I haven't found something by now other than the pure fact it had highest precedence on Bavarian bars. It might possibly refer to the paramount position the House Equestrian Order of Saint George held - keep in mind, this came in several classes and even the lowest, knight, was worn as a neck badge, accompanied by a breast star! This isn't our standard merit order, but a society connecting Bavaria's old, high nobility... However, many photos even of Bavarian princes (and rulers?) proof this rule of precedence was often ignored, not only if the medal was combined with the very high esteemed Militär-Max-Joseph-Orden's knight's cross. It might have seemed ridiculous even to some of them!

Wow, now that's an impressive combination of high awards... however, just in case this is a path the further discussion might take: I would avoid to add anything else than what someone had, if such a tunic is attributed to a certain person. Or in doubt: not replace any (other, non-fitting) awards. But that's just my few Pfenninge as a purist.

Thanks for these most valuable additions! However, the crosses awarded in Doorn era would probably have been gilt only, made or supplied by Godet, and came in another style of boxes. See also the excellent article Die Vergabe des Königlichen Hausordens von Hohenzollern durch Wilhelm II. im Doorner Exil | geschichtlich – bildlich – statistisch by Tilo Wahl, published in the DGO yearbook 2012, pages 2 to 22.

Ah, I see - hard enough to find I suppose, and everything else is almost beyond possible: Künker announces to have v. Mackensen's real one, among others of his award and many family pieces, in their upcoming autumn auction. Exciting!

These crosses are still around on German ebay and according to the offering, it's a multi-piece cross with iron core, but non-silver (still silver marked...) frame. Those are brand-new, and most unlikely to be associated with any older German firm that made awards "back in the days". Only good thing here: they are offered as fake. Nothing for my collection, but if someone needs a filler... there are worse made ones, for sure.

In general, I can give thumbs up for this statement, but I have to clearify: Baden changed from gold to silver gilt - or, to be acurate, to silver with a mechanical gold plating - as far back as 1910. So, this wasn't made due to war caused gold shortage, but just to save some money for the state. However, it is very easy to alter a knight's cross 2nd class to a (gilt) knight's cross 1st class, just by gilding it. From poor pictures, I couldn't tell original and manipulated pieces apart... they are a mine field, in my opinion. Unless they have the "D" mark stamped in the medaillon body. As a Baden collector, I avoid anything else.

I had the same recently, and must clearify: such a combination of metal bows was never worn officially, but rather put together by a collector. You could only have the "1870 - 71." or one of the two other "1870." and "1871." bows, or maybe both of the latter in strange cases, plus, of course, the "1866." to any of those combinations. But not all at once. Your medal, Dean, seems to be an early striking, with the spotty arranged letters in the reverse inscription. Such a medal would most likely have been awarded in 1839 to a veteran of the Napoleonic wars... See Volle, Henning. Die Orden und tragbaren Ehrenzeichen des Großherzogtums und der Republik Baden. Freiburg im Breisgau 2019. p. 389–408.

The Ludvigsen volume gives award numbers for both pre- (mainly 1860s/1870s) and WW1 awards by years, the Geile work on Prussian WW1 awards gives the WW1 awards, those to the army only, with names, ranks, and dates. However, we have to keep in mind that from late 1916 on, they were produced and usually awarded in silver gilt! Once, when I had a damaged example, I discussed this very issue with Daniel Krause, who assumed there were ca. thirty commanders and roughly a dozen grand commander crosses in real gold awarded in WW1...

Wow, hadn't expected that, to be honest... I'll send you an email!

Good to see an authentic Michael, after German ebay is currently flooded with probably-not-so-good-ones. See, here's one without crown; I'm not sure if they're also doing the higher grade, however... The ebay seller, furchtlosundtreu14, seems to be part of a "network" for not so nice pieces, together with others like aubanan12, benkosi, bogdangapol, cairde32, egon4791, ichverkaufealles12345, galec-galec, inge7591ch, kasperle369, koelnerdomplatz09, kokor00, lillyfee-1995, mansamusa, orehilas321, pueppchenundtuch, salihero, sanktvith2011, slimcase1958, sterog62, trumeko, trumeko28 and wilro11... ebay was more fun in earlier years.

Are you sure he got any 1914 Iron Crosses besides the Grand Cross? That would be unusual, to say the least, and I cannot find much to back this up. Do you have some source that claims he got both classes of the EK twice? I have some doubts about this claim, to be honest.

David, I have this one as well. Your search, however, has probably been satisfied within the past five years? If not, please feel free to drop me a line, here, or better, by email...

PS: If you're interested in this decoration, please see also this thread for another one in wear.