saschaw

Gentlemen, I'm rather sure JensF. made the point. The bar is not genuine at all as well as the MEZ I. class isn't. The same seller sold now this one which I don't like, and the bar has the very same style

 

Another thing he sold was a Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen with a "Jubiläumszahl" which also did not seem to be fine - link to Ebay.

 

 

 

 

No one who can help with this?

And the "Frenchman":

Thanks in advance

And some close ups:

Revers:

I'd like to hear you gentlemen's opinion about this 10 place "Austrian" medal bar from Third Reich era, so in German style worn and with some very ugly swastika awards, my apologize for these.

The "Golden" TM is made from silver and has the little "A", and the French Knight of the Honour Legion is model from 1871-1945, if I remember correctly.

The bar is in my humble opinion NOT one of those coming up on Ebay recently as it has yet been for some years in my father's collection, and was purchased from another collector who had no Ebay at these days, as I remember.

That doesn't say for sure it has to be genuine, so I'd like to hear some opinions, as I got a fear to such big "monster bars" in the last months ...

Avers:

Here's another document for a (Golden) War Imtyaz to a German, not signed by Liman von Sanders, but for him:

Thanks for the compliment, your's isnt that bad, too.

Maybe they took off the FAK2 ribbon maybe because it had the "vor dem Feinde" clasp on it and was used for making an updated ribbon bar with Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer... just guessing!

You might be right, I also thought like this and think to replace it as soon as I can get one. Does some have a homeless "Vor Dem Feinde" bar in ribbon bar size?

The back is RED - well, why not ...

These bars were used from Godet, am I right with this?

Hope you like my favorite ribbon bar.

Some months ago, I had to(!) buy this one on the IWB in Stuttgart. The seller had it the year before and didn't get it sold, and I almost bought it, but this year I wasn't able to miss it, although it was damaged and very well worn, and not to cheap.

The 3rd ribbon was missing but I found a little rest of it on the back so I knew what I had to replace, please don't ask why someone removed an Oldenburg ribbon ???

It's an 11 place ribbon bar, with:

- Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse;

- Preu?en, Hausorden von Hohenzollern, Kreuz der Ritter mit Schwertern;

- Oldenburg, Friedrich August-Kreuz II. Klasse (ribbon replaced);

- Baden, Zähringer Löwe, Ritterkreuz I. Klasse mit Schwertern;

- Hamburg, Hanseatenkreuz;

- Lübeck, Hanseatenkreuz;

- Dt. Reich, Chinadenkmünze;

- Preußen, Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse;

- Preußen, Dienstauszeichnungskreuz für Offiziere;

- Preußen, Centenarmedaille;

- Osmanisches Reich, Kriegsmedaille.

This guy was navy, wasn't he? And the Zähringer has to be 3aX as this guy was for sure not an Leutnant or Oberleutnant, and if he had been Hauptmann, there should be a BZL3bElX, right? I'm not sure if he can be identified, as I have not yet the Roth volume to check the navy recipients of BZL3aX - and as the rest is almost "standart" ...

As far as I know such orders had to be given back until the 1930s(!) after death unless they were military WWI awards (and these weren't). So they probably went back.

Very nice to se it restored ...

I think Solomon has been mostly right, it seems (at least for me) to be a pre WWI officers "bar".

He apparently startet post 1897, but very short after this, so he still had enough time to get all this glitter pre 1914. The yellow ribbon #4 is the pre war ribbon if we talk of Waldeck, they changed to white with sowrds in WWI!

The long service is Prussian as the officer is, so he wears his military(!) long service in front of his peace time awards, even if these look better and are enemaled. If he had started pre 1897, he would also wear his Centenarmedaille in front of those, as just these two, the long service cross and the Centenarmedaille are imilitary awards!

So what we have here is, in my humble opinion, a officer's button from about 1910 to 1914, with rare an nice medals from different German states.

Hmm, I know I've seen this portrait/medal before, but I cannot remember exactly what it was. Looking threw the OEK, I found No 1315, the Mecklenburg-Schwerin medal for Africa 1907/08 ...

Might be this one? Would also match very nice to the Kriegerverdienstmedaille, and no SWA medal es he might have been anywhere else in Africa and got just the 1912 Kolonialdenkm?nze he has not yet the picture is taken.

saschaw said:

Isn't it actually like

 

"G&S" = Glaser und Sohn (or Söhne?) and

"GuS" = Godet und Sohn (or Söhne?) ?!?

 

Well, I looked it up and my source says it's been the other way around than I wrote, so Claudio was very right. My apologizes.

Claudio said:

Did you notice that the Ehrenkreuz für Kriegsteilnehmer is marked G&S (Godet & Sohn)? Very nice.

Isn't it actually like

 

"G&S" = Glaser und Sohn (or Söhne?) and

"GuS" = Godet und Sohn (or Söhne?) ?!?

 

 

1) we have a iron cross 2 nd. class on a combatant ribbon but then we see the Hindenburg on a non-combatant, could this be one of the ...... ?

Very nice and interresting bar, but with the Silesian Eagle, I don't think he's a Homestayer who got a black and white EK ...

Absence of long service, 1897, and an Iron Cross suggests to me that Somebody Not Nice has switched a peacetime OZL off and put on one with swords on a civil servant's bar.

Well, this is what I indeed thought when I looked at the bar in Illingen, so we didn't buy it, and the same again when it came up on Ebay some months later. The Z?hringer ribbon also seems to be a bit damaged where the ring sits, doesn't it?

I've never been entirely clear as to who got the Baden 1902, but not everybody did.

Shall I type and translate the list? It lists almost any persons of the official life, and any Badener who was Officer or a higher Beamter, even normal soldiers having served yet some years (but not all!) got them. I think we will hardly find a bar of a "Zivil-Beamter" with Z?hringer but without the 1902 medal, at least talking about post 1902 bars. So this bar still remains strange to me, but looks actually very fine though. A very favoured beamter who entered service short after 1902 and got these three (Z?hringer without swords, methinks still, too) before 1914? Possible, but not the usual way ...

Im a late one but one question always runs towards my mind => who did make these absolute beauty's? Is there a way to find out who mad ewich type of Z?hringer?

As far as I know makers are know but it's hard to tell a particular piece being made by a maker as most (at least the silber WWI ones) are without any marks. Some are sometimes marked, e.g. with "B" for "Ludwig Bertsch, Karlsruhe", "Z" for "Joseph Zuber, Karlsruhe" and also Zimmermann in Pforzheim made many - methinks most of the WWI stuff, but I actually don't KNOW it ...

Would be very nice and interessting to learn about this, as it's a question very interresting, also for me.

Isn't that a diplomat's Degen the gentleman 1n #6 is holding?

No, surely not. It is a Infanterie-Offiziers Degen from pre 1889 era, a very old Degen modell which has been usedin similar shape since 18th century and was followed be the very well known IOD 89.

Not easy to say at all.

I think you should remove the Prussian XV year and replace it with a Third Reich civil long service, might match very fine IMHO.

But, which W?rttemberg? He wasn't in service in 1897, and we cannot say for sure if he was whole WWI on the front. Nine year isn't enough, twelve year might work as well as fithteen. Reserve/Landwehr also possible, but I think less likely.

I think I would prefer a 15 year as more likely, but if you decide for a 12 year: I'll get one next week, and I don't really need it

Keith is right , We can Not read this alphabet , it is not Turkish , it is Ottoman Language ( Mix of Persian , Arabic and Turkish) In 1932 we had a alphabet reform , we are nor using any more any Persian or Arabic words, and only using Turkish Latin alphabet. Even in the heart of Istanbul's Antique Bazaar , it is extreme hard to find someone who can read this language...

I have just one Ottoman document, of which I sent a scan to a doktor of orientalistik in Northern Germany (which I got to know by coincidence), but unfortunally he wasn't able to read it as well as I wasn't . He sent a copy of the document to a professor in Instanbul who transcribed and translated it in modern Turkish, then the Doktor translated it in German.

Has been much work (for others ), hasn't it?

Looks to me like a Frackspange, and also methinks it is from about 1900 and not WWI era (just a feeling), so it cannot be the crappy zinky Kriegshilfekreuz but something much better.

For the last (or, if I'm right and it IS actually a Frackspange, then first) position might match different Red Eagle Orders, or also an Iron Cross 1870, rather on the white and black than on the black and white ribbon.

Please, as soon as it arrives, show us a picture of the back ...

Nobody's perfect. Not even Detlev. This one just cannot be right. Wrong precedence, especially Sudeten before Austrian. No Austrian would have got that order wrong. Naaahhhh!

I raised exactly this one on a German forum, but no one wanted yet to agree, as they don't like to critisise HIM.

I'm actually unaware of these, but I don't really like the LW long service award. But this might also be my paranoia ...

But at least the bar is not genuine, in my humble opinion.

[ ... ] is this the usual way to wear them at an ulanka (if I remember the name of such uniforms correctly....)

Sure it is ...

I prefer thinking of an Russian award - not the Annen order but something of lower level using the same ribbon. At least it is 1000% sure not a Baden LS award.

A Brunswick pre war merit might also be possible, as a homecountry peace awards could either be worn in front of any foreign or after all(!) war merit awards - and the Austrian is a war merit award, as is has the bravery ribbon.

Nice and interessing bar, by the way. I've seen it on Ebay and IF the last one was Baden as the seller said, I think it would have been me who had bought it.