saschaw

Nice bar, Rick - still your's?

They used to belong together but were split off while sold on Ebay.

I don't see how you can see anything on those crappy pictures. Detlev had it in hand so I assume he had a better look than we can get from those pics.

Dio you refer to all fakes I posted or only to the one on the bar? I have to admit the pictures are really bad, but I've seen the bar (about maybe one to two years) before in one of his friday's updates, of course with a better picture (which Im didn't safe, unfortunally). It WAS one of these cast fakes.

PS:

Would be nice if someone had a better picture of this bar, e.g. the one from DN's update. I know there are people saving pictures a medal bars - I also do so, but I missed this one.

Sold with GOA - by Detlev Niemann, Hamburg

First of all:

Sorry for these "worst ever seen" pictures, it has been sold on Ebay with these.

I did never own this bar, but we CAN see at least the "Adler der Inhaber" is cast crap, the pictures are probably to bad to say anything about the EK II 1870, but the ribbons do not really look old, do they?

Another genuine one, from my father's collection:

Here's my contribution to this excellent thread.

First of all, two cast FAKES of the eagle, one with "Jubil?umszahl". Ain't they UUUGLY ???

(you could have purchased these little "gems" at C. Zeige, Hamburg)

Are you sure the Austria Commemorative goes after the Hindenburg?

It's both ways right. On a pre 1938 bar the Austrian must(!) be after "Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer", but with 1938 Austria becoming part of the "Gro?deutsches Reich", the former Austrian WWI awards become German state's WWI awards and might(!) be worn in front of "Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer".

Ain't it stupid

This box is not for the German "Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer", but for the Austrian "Weltkriegs-Erinnerungsmedaille". Very nice and not often seen nonetheless. I do not know if this box was official for the Austrian medal or also for purchase ?!? Can someone help?

And in Detail. His decorations are:

- Bayern, Milit?rverdienstorden III. Klasse mit Schwertern;

- Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 1914 II. Klasse;

- Bayern, Rettungsmedaille(?);

- Hamburg, Hanseatenkreuz;

- Preu?en, Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse;

- Baden, Orden vom Z?hringer L?wen, Ritterkreuz (wohl) II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub;

- Bayern, Dienstauszeichnungskreuz II. Klasse f?r 24 Dienstjahre;

- Preu?en, Centenarmedaille 1897.

I'm not sure with the 3rd one, might someone help, please?

Wasn?t the b.R.I.R 16 the Regiment, old Adolf served in?

Did some one mention Bavarian R.I.R. 16 ???

I do not know if he was in R.I.R. or I.R., but he's quite a pretty guy, isn't he?

A "Oberst" in "feldgrauer Uniform" from about 1917/18(?).

Dear Gentlemen,

I do not believe any of these Baden ribbons belonged to Friedrich I as I have seen by now dozens of photos of him, but not one with him wearing any Z?hringer(!).

They might be from any other male person of the Baden house, maybe an older grand duke or an prince.

Extreme rar and interessting nonetheless, of course.

Tom Y said:

Now let's see the gongs

The second ons IS a "Chinadenkmünze mit zwei Gefechtsspangen" for sure, but I'm not that sure with the first on. I'm guessing on something, but, please - first some else ...

A Detail - thanks in advance.

Dear Gentlemen,

here you are, a photo of an German soldier I bought about a week ago.

I believe the picture to be from about 1900 to 1914, for me it seems to be at least pre war. The rank must be something like "Unteroffizier", most likely a "Vize-Feldwebel". The Photo was taken in Altshausen, which is lokated in Württemberg. Unfortunally, I cannot recognize anything on the IOD 89, might be Württemberg, or may also be Prussia. On his shoulder boards (? - "Schulterstücke") I can recognize three numbers, most likely 126.

I'm leaving out his decorations by now, as these would not make it easier, I think.

Do you think I'm right that far, with Württemberg IR 126 and rank?

And again, "in Stahl am Band f?r Nichtk?mpfer" on a wracked Baden 1870 bar, missing the Baden "Erinnerungskreuz f?r freiwillige Krankenpflege" on 2nd place and the wohle ribbon in the first.

What do you to fit best there? I was yet told a Prussian "Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen", but in front of an war award? Hmm ...

That's it for now, I don't have any more 1870 bars than these. Hope you liked them though beeing damged and wrecked ...

A, at least in my opinion, very nice bar to a Prussian fighter in 1848, with the "Medaille in Stahl Band f?r Nichtk?mpfer":

Here again a "Stahl am Band f?r K?mpfer", to a W?rttemberg officer, with all the good stuff missing to the bar ...

At the same time, it still seems to me that by far, the majority of stahl medals that I have seen on groups over the years, have been on the non combatant ribbon. Live and learn.

Hmm ....

Honestly, I do NOT count them, but by now I saw many of all kinds on some forums, dealers and on Ebay. I have just five medal bars with 1870 Kriegsdenkm?nze, one in Bronze and the other four in Stahl, amung these two on the "Band f?r K?mpfer" and two on the "Band f?r Nichtk?mpfer". This, of course, does not show the real numbers of existing medals, but more my preferences in buying.

First a Prussian bar, with an extremely nice "Prinzengr??e" of the Centenarmedalle, the KO probably beeing sent back after death:

Well, your arguments don't sound bad, there were really ugly EKs (ever seen a KO closeup? I think you did), but I still "believe" my story, even though I will never be able to prove the EK's Turkish origin (how should I, it seems impossilbe) ...

If they only could speak.

What's the German "Sprichwort"?

"Der Glaube ist des Menschen Himmelreich ... "

And the very nice medal bar with a EK of the same maker, isn't it?

First sold on Ebay to DN, then sold by DN (which I lend the picture from):

And the reverse of Liman von Sanders' EK II:

Thanks for your fast answer, Tim.

Tim Tezer said:

unlikely that any maker in Turkey had the capacity to mass produce Iron Crosses.

Well, did I speak of "mass production"?

Here shown is an EK II that belonged to Ottoman Marshall O. Liman von Sanders. Of course I cannot say sure if it is his awarded piece or one he later bought, but at least it belonged to him. He's been in Turkey for five years, 1913-1918. This does NOT prove the EK having been made in Turkey, but it might be, as I've seen by now exactly one other piece with this, honestly said, ugly iron core. The frame, by the way, is of god quality.

The other one I've seen by know was on a large medalbar of a German Officer who also was awarded the Silver Lyakat Medal, so, might I think, has been to Turkey in the war also.

Avers of the Iron Cross:

Yes, of course, I am aware of the fact that the non combatant medal was awarded on the combatant ribbon (see below); but to the best of my knowledge such awards were exceptionally rare. I did not mean to imply that it was wrong, just very very rare - no problem.

Well, according to J. Nimmergut, opus magnum V, there were

- 1,107,756 in "Bronze am Band f?r K?mpfer"

- 341,949 in "Stahl am Band f?r K?mpfer"

- 57,094 in "Stahl am Band f?r Nichtk?mpfer"

awarded. Methought the "Stahl" medal were quite rarer than the Bronze ones, but the difference in whole isn't that extrem I used to think. Fairly often seen, in my opinion, are the "Stahl am Band f?r K?mpfer" which not makes me think anymore, if I know there were more than 300,000 awarded.

Extreme rare, I guess, are two "Stahl" on different ribbons on ONE bar - I've never seen another bar than yours, Wild Card - Congratulations.

I have another medal for "Kunst und Wissenschaft", but I actually do not know, where it comes from. It does not seem to be a German state's one, but from any German instituion maybe?

The Insrcript has a mistake as it should read "F?r" instead of "V?r" in correct German, as I know.

I have no idea what it is, but seems to be quite old (about 100 years maybe) and is worn as genuine.

Does someone know it or has any idea on it?

Of course you are right, these things were from the "Nachlass" of Otto Braun, but the awards and documents were from:

- August Braun

- his Son Otto Baun

- Otto Braun's son in law Prof. Giercke

and also of some of their wifes. The very nice medal bar and ribbon bar were of none of these as the two Brauns were dead before WWI and Giercke had other awards ...

I really took a close look at these things when me and my father visited the seller, can trust me in this ...

Did you buy anything else, or just the ribbon bar with the bow?