saschaw

On 15/08/2022 at 14:35, saschaw said:

Same is true for (...) "silver" badges. Their grade is properly named "mattweiß".

I guess some fakers don't know this either... but this time, at least, it's declared properly!

https://www.ebay.de/itm/175387429901

On 21/08/2022 at 17:24, Deruelle said:

To be honest it is the first time for me.

Neither have I ever heard that before... just curious, is the Dresdner Nachrichten an official source? If it's not, I would love to see something official. I'm a bit skeptical. Strange mistakes did sometimes happen...

On 14/08/2022 at 18:17, Simius Rex said:

The incorrect ribbon used (...) is not the only problem this medal bar has.

Well, now that you mention it... seems someone reconstructed the group, be it from Koepke's awards or just from lose medals, to fit the paperwork.

What a shame... there's so many groups that have been "played" with.

Other (or most) sources spell his name "Arthur Kraußneck". German Wikipedia has a detailed article. More information could be found at "deutsche-biographie.de". Plus, he's also listed in the "imdb"!

On 24/06/2022 at 13:32, dwmosher said:

Just not sure of the wound badge...

It certainly makes sense, given the Krieger-Ehrenzeichen in Eisen was awarded to wounded soldiers only.

For further details, see Henning Volle: Stiftungen und Erneuerungen von deutschen Orden und Ehrenzeichen im Ersten Weltkrieg. Schriftenreihe der Deutschen Gesellschaft für Ordenskunde e. V. (DGO), Konstanz am Bodensee 2014, p. 47/48.

Another addition? Thanks, Glenn, that's great! I did not really expect that...

Looks like an authentic award piece to me. Nothing wrong with it besides the condition. These are still common, so even a dealer would probably not ask more than 20,- to 25,- Euro for such a worn piece...

2 hours ago, Tupper said:

One Last question - why is my medal affixed with a small ribbon?

Well, as a makeshift I'd say. Imagine it were not: the medal would hang way too high on that bar, with one third being invisible from front! A common practice to fix this oddity! That, of course, is the reason many private companies made their Schnallenstücke with a normal ring instead of the Bügel. Why some didn't is a mystery indeed. As for the official medals, it's a bit strange as well, but then, it was custom for literally all but one or two Baden state medals for more than a hundred years... a tradition, so to say.

By the way, the award number of this Silberne Verdienstmedaille am Bande der Militärischen Karl-Friedrich-Verdienstmedaille during World War I is close to 130,000. It's the most common Baden award - by far, despite we don't have specific numbers for some other relatively common Baden awards.

On 13/08/2022 at 18:24, VtwinVince said:

Material from Baden is nice to collect, and another rabbit hole easy to go down.

I couldn't agree more! The awards from Baden are certainly among the nicer ones, regarding both design and craftsmanship!

On 13/08/2013 at 20:49, saschaw said:

Almost forgot about that, sorry Antti...

... and my apologies to everybody else! I totally forgot about this thread nine years ago. I can confirm Telegraph director Zappe is still "living" with me and will stay for probably another nine years... at least.

Thanks to all who contributed to the identification and/or added further information!

Some "Klugscheißerei" first, sorry: The actual name of this grade is "mattgelb". The term "Gold" wasn't "invented" for wound badges until 1939, when Hitler re-introduced it for World War II. Same is true for sometimes so-called "silver" badges. Their grade is properly named "mattweiß".

For further information about the badges' history, you might enjoy reading Dietmar Hinze: Das preußische Verwundetenabzeichen von 1918. Anmerkungen zu seiner Stiftung vor 100 Jahren. In: Orden und Ehrenzeichen. Vol. 114, April 2018. p. 62–80.

All that being said, this badge looks suspicious to me; neither like a piece awarded in 1918, nor like one purchased in the 1920s, 1930s or 1940s by veterans. The detail is really soft, and the finish looks rather new. Is there a chance it was possibly obtained from one of these infamous ebay sellers?!

Here's an 1918 award type, die struck from iron, with their relatively ugly finish (and yes, it's paint!) which is typical of the time:

Yes, as said before, this is a "Zweitstück". Could be post-war era or even contemporary, as some companies started to produce such pieces as early as 1915. No way to tell, of course, and it wouldn't matter anyway I'd think.

Here's one in gold I sold a few weeks ago. Good enough for a comparison, as the design was exactly the same. Rudolf Mayer's initials are rather easy to spot, and that's the easiest way to recognize any inofficial ones.

A remarkably complete group, with all that papers! However, despite I've already seen the bar in 2014, it took me until now to realize the Baden's Kriegsverdienstkreuz' ribbon is not the proper one...

This looks much more like a Soviet "Order of Lenin" [Орден Ленина] ribbon?! Could not be, unless the bar was recreated much more recently to fit the group...

6 hours ago, Tupper said:

Its Not a Spangenstück. Looks Luke the normal medal

It actually is one, despite the suspension! The official medals had the artist's initials "R.M." besides the bust which naturally lacks on a Zweit- or Schnallenstück. There is quite a number of variations of these private purchase pieces... I still have to catalog and count them, I guess!

See also Henning Volle:  Die Orden und tragbaren Ehrenzeichen des Großherzogtums und der Republik Baden. Freiburg im Breisgau 2019. p 287.

On 10/08/2022 at 19:18, BlackcowboyBS said:

Well there are some examples from the third reich, where you can see people wearing these bars in two rows.

You must be kidding, right? I asked specifically for a picture of Generalleutant Theobald LIEB, wearing one of the two upper row ribbon bars shown in this thread. The use of ribbon bars in two rows is generally know, and had already been demonstrated here by Rick in 2007 with the Koschel group... please, could you maybe pay a little more attention before posting? Thank you.

On 29/04/2015 at 03:07, Paul R said:

Any ideas on the number of these awarded?

From what I can find, the Mecklenburg-Schwerin Militär-Verdienstkreuz am roten Bande was awarded only about 1640 times, which is around only 2% of the total WW1 era awards of this cross... and that's why we don't see them too often.

Source: Henning Volle: Stiftungen und Erneuerungen von deutschen Orden und Ehrenzeichen im Ersten Weltkrieg. Schriftenreihe der Deutschen Gesellschaft für Ordenskunde e. V. (DGO), Konstanz am Bodensee 2014. See p. 59/60.

On 29/04/2015 at 18:56, ixhs said:

looks new. could you please show the back.

Despite the pristine look, I don't think anything's wrong. Old ribbons, just well stored.

Still interested in a photo with the Lieb ribbon bar(s) in wear, despite it's not "living" with me anymore. Regarding Generalleutnant Schimpf, however, a portrait of him is currently being offered on ebay!

BV2a indeed... I had been looking in the 2003 first edition of Zelosko, where it seems to be missing. The new 2019 reprint has it, as does, of course, the Baden Hof- und Staatshandbuch... thank you!

On 31/05/2021 at 01:25, Deutschritter said:

Militär-Karl-Friedrich-Verdienstorden, Kommandeurkreuz I. Klasse (BV2a)

I wanted to provide you with the award date, but had to notice my source (Zelosko, vol. 2, p. 23) doesn't mention v. Blumenthal at all! Might that be a mistake in your list, or is it my Baden roll that's not complete?

On 31/05/2021 at 01:25, Deutschritter said:

Roter Adlerorden, I. Klasse mit Schwertern

Did you miss to mention oak leaves, or did he, for some strange reason, receive this class without oaks? I know there were exceptions to some rules in 1888, during the short reign of Friedrich III, but this didn't effect oak leaves, from what I remember, and Blumenthal's RAO1X doesn't seem to be an 1888 award anyway...

On 05/01/2021 at 09:00, Glenn J said:

(...) he remained at the cadet school in Wahlstatt during the Franco-German war.

Which, for those who didn't hear this before, made him a recipient of the 1870/71 medal in steel on the combatant ribbon, while officials, civil doctors/medics and members of the "Freiwillige Krankenpflege" that were close to the frontline in France, would receive same medal on the non-combatant ribbon...

According to my sources, a total of 341,949 such medals was awarded to soldiers that stayed "at home", while the other group to receive steel medals, officials and civil medics, were no more than 57,094 persons, including an unknown number of females.

See Gerd Scharfenberg and Klaus-Peter Merta: Die „Medaille zur Erinnerung an des Hochseligen Kaisers und Königs Wilhelm I., des Großen, Majestät“ – Zum 100jährigen Stiftungsjubiläum der „Kaiser-Wilhelm-Erinnerungsmedaille“ (sog. „Zentenarmedaille“). In: Orden-Militaria-Magazin No. 77, Steinau 1997. p. 1–34.

A lovely "long and short" ensemble, probably made by Gebr. Godet & Co.! The lack of a long service medal makes me think young Hauptmann, and due to the sheer amount of war awards probably in the Generalstab, or possibly attached to some famous, highly decorated general?!

3 hours ago, drspeck said:

16; Lippe faithfull service cross for non-combattants

This is most likely not another(!) Schaumburg-Lippe Kreuz für treue Dienste 1914, but their Erinnerungsmedaille an die Silberne Hochzeit.

Given this would not be mentioned in a rank list, this information is admittedly of not too much help...

5 minutes ago, Tupper said:

i Had several Red Cross medals but this is my First Prinzen ???

Thought so... thanks for clarifying! So any of these in reduced size is a "rare bird"!

On 31/10/2016 at 05:43, GODISHIGH said:

Is there any resource that shows a list of the people who were awarded the Bavarian MVO 4th Class, Hesse Order of Phillip the Magnaminous Knights Cross 2nd Class, and the Brunswick Henry the Lion Merit Cross?

The Bavarian and Hesse lists certainly exist in archives or in contemporary sources, but have, from what I know, no been published until this day. The Brunswick lists, however, are part of Stephan Schwarz' books on Brunswick orders and decorations - the rolls are volume 3 of the series, and are available here...

My fingers are crossed you'll find decent pieces soon... but no hurry I guess.

No sure if you're adressing me, or Alex K, or both of us, but I just wanted to bump this thread up again.

Maybe someone could solve the "riddle" now, with improved information, or by sheer coincidence!

It's old, but you might be interested in reading this thread.

This is apparently a Spanish order of St. John branch!