Claudius

I posted this bar some time ago.  Do you need photos posted directly to this thread or will this link be sufficient?

WGMMM w/Lubeck 4-medal bar - Germany: Imperial: The Orders, Decorations and Medals of The Imperial German States - Gentleman's Military Interest Club (gmic.co.uk)

Since the last post to the above thread, have there been any updates to the award lists that might further narrow the list of possible recipients?

10 hours ago, Triad08 said:

He was obviously a Bavarian with 15 years of Bavarian military service but he didn't receive a single Bavarian combat award during WW1. So there are several possible scenarios for the owner of this bar, not the least of which is that he did not fight as a Bavarian during the war (as strange as that sounds.)  Regards.  

24 minutes ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

well for sure he was on the front, the war merit cross from Braunschweig on the fighters ribbon was only awarded to people in the trenches facing the enemy. But true, interesting questions came up to mind.

These were my observations as well.  He was 15 years with Bavarians and then served in a different unit?  Transfered or moved prior to WWI?  Or with the Bavarians he didn't even earn a BMVK.  The gent was obviously proud of what he did get by mounting them through Godet (from Berlin!).  Maybe he was still in uniform after the war and acting some governmental capacity that he needed his bar to look perfect.

That is a really nice medal bar!  Thanks for showing it. 

It is my (wildly optimistic) opinion that COVID is in retreat....

With this much advance notice, I'm planning on attending.  Anyone else?

Sorry, late to this thread.

What a nifty looking device.  Look at all those hallmarks and silvermarks!  On the underside and on each of the coin holders.  If I understand them correctly, you can trace down the manufacturer and the exact year it was made with them.

I see it was engraved on the top and underneath by two different owners that used it at different time periods? 

1 hour ago, Simius Rex said:

Even if you don't know what an original looks like, the date of "1914" is a dead giveaway because these Marine Luftschiffer badges were introduced after WW1 in the 1920s... that, and the screwy looking English queen's crown hallmark.

Res ipsa loquitur

9 hours ago, David M said:

You wouldn't happen to have a photo of one Heinrich Müldner who was in Tsingtao at the time of WW1?

 

Trying to find a photo when you are just starting with the name is a lot like Pin-the-tail-on-the-Donkey.  Much easier to go from a named photo to the POW rolls.  Why the interest in Heinrich Müldner?  Very interesting -I see he was a Translator in training and knew 13 languages!

2 hours ago, Langers said:

I’m guessing that there’s a backstory here?

None that I'm aware of.  Only in a humorous fashion we are trying to find other uses for fake medals.  Sadly, they do come up very regularly and the in the past it was suggested that they would be better used as; inexpensive collector's copies, costume jewelry or on a reenactor's uniform. 

Don't take it personally.  I once bought a Naval Observer's badge that I was sure was real.  I even bought it from a recognized dealer and it also had maker-marks and purity marks that would convince any lightly knowledgeable person.  It was a bad badge and I had to limp back to the seller to get my money back.

1 hour ago, VtwinVince said:

Nice fishing lure.

...but needs hooks.

What I found strange is the article reference that the looters haven't reached the tunnel yet, however after tossing aside rusted trench items they haven't gotten to the "treasure trove". 

What do they consider the treasure?  The body remains in decayed uniforms?  Rifles, bayonets and other gear in rotted condition?  Do they think that there are some helmets in good enough condition to be valuable?  

Discovering WW1 tunnel of death hidden in France for a century - BBC News

7 minutes ago, laurentius said:

Austrian Military Merit Cross third class and the Bulgarian Order of Bravery with swords.

Thank you.

When I was looking at number 8, it looked like there is something above the cross.  I couldn't make it out very well.

What a great looking medal bar!  I wish I could see some good color photos of that.  Any idea where it is now?  Still with the family?

I couldn't zoom in very well.  What is number 8 and 9?

10 hours ago, CRBeery said:

I have a pile of spares here. Some are even signed.

I had no idea that there were so many copies available.  In the deep past I had to look a long time for my Volume I and I thought they were still hard to find.

Does anyone need Volume I -Bavaria to complete their collection or personal research?  I have an extra one.

I found a copy for sale on FB and I bought it for a friend, but it turns out he didn't need it ?.

(this is not related to my earlier shipping from Germany problem -that package is still underway to me.)

19 hours ago, Chris Boonzaier said:

 

I am of the firm belief if you mention something before it arrives, the DP will lose it!

LOL -I have had that superstition for years now.  

I am not at all familiar with paper award bags from Carl Poellath (or Karl Pöllath depending on the time period).  They look like their from post-1945.  I don't know why they wouldn't be legit.  Are they faking the award bags too?

20 hours ago, GdC26 said:

1915 predates the date of the cross’ institution in December 1916, after Karl had ascended to the throne(s).

Are you sure the date is correct/the Urkunde is in fact for a Karl truppenkreuz/is genuine?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Troop_Cross

Kind regards,

Sandro

I strongly believe the urkunde is genuine.  It is part of a group of documents that belonged to Wilhelm Oppelt, including his other award documents and photos.   If it was a forgery, I would imagine that they would stop with just the 1918 award for the Karl Truppen cross.  There are two photos of him.  While the medals are blocked out, the ribbons are clear and the Karl Truppen cross is there (just the one).

---

After thinking more on it, I have one theory to offer.  Maybe after the Karl Truppen cross was instituted in December 1916, Oppelt's first authorization document was dated 1915 to show that he earned it back in 1915.  Later in 1918, there was a bureaucratic error when he earned it as a pilot that made ten(10) flights over enemy lines and was automatically issued the 1918 authorization document. 

I'm confused by this as well.

Hello;

From all the A-H medal bars, ribbon bars and photographs I've seen it would suggest ONLY one.

However I have personal documents from a gentlemen for notification of the Karl Truppen Kruez in 1915 and then another Karl Truppen Kruez notification in 1918.

24 minutes ago, JapanX said:

There were at least a dozen of different manufactures of these badges. 

 

Years ago I remember going to a OMSA show and a gentleman had a display of the dozen different Imp.Austrian Commemorative 2. Dezember 1873 medal.  In some cases the differences were subtle, but they were clearly from different manufacturers, perhaps across the Austrian Empire.  The gentleman believed there had to be multiple manufactures to fulfill the large number that needed to be produced. 

I have to wonder how many Commemorative badges for the 100th anniversary of the Ministry of War were needed that required multiple manufacturers?

That is a remarkable difference in quality.  When I look between the Orders made by Eduard and Keibel I don't see such a disparity. 

? obverse please.

2 hours ago, JapanX said:

Yes, it does.

?

I'm flummoxed.

I'll speak plainly -I don't like it.

The tiny cross on the top is poorly formed and too delicate looking -it is not how the period items were done.  These were badges on uniforms and you didn't want them catching on the cloth and making fraying marks.

The main body looks poured into a form.  The scepter and orb look particularly poorly cast.

The Russian-style wingnut in the back also looks cast with the loops poorly soldered on.  The left one "slipped" when it was being attached.  And it shows false wear.  Somehow it received a deep dent.  These are finger tighten screws and it is highly unlikely that someone took a pliers to it.

The piece tries to appear has a high quality badge (with enamel parts and five attachments) but also have the lesser quality of an enlisted man's badge with the main body being so crudely made.

This is when it would be very illuminating to compare this piece with a known legitimate badge to clearly show the construction differences.    

The 225th anniversary!?  Can we see the back side too?