Claudius
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Posts posted by Claudius
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18 minutes ago, Dave Danner said:
Prior to the war, Erbse was a praktischer Arzt in Mitwitz in Oberfranken, Bavaria.
Erbse was awarded the Ehrenkreuz 3. Klasse mit Schwertern on 26.1.1917. It was awarded for his service as a Stabsarzt d.R. in III./7.bay.IR and as Regimentsarzt of the 7.bay.IR in the early months of the war. It was not an upgrade to a prewar Ehrenkreuz.
He also received the Iron Cross for his service at the front in 1914. These were both combatant awards. The non-combatant König Ludwig Cross was awarded for his service in Reserve-Lazarett Bayreuth I from 1915 to 1917. In April 1917, apparently in recognition of the fact that he had been decorated for his service at the front by both Prussia and Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt, but not by Bavaria, the Bavarian authorities approved the Military Merit Order 4th Class with Swords.
He returned to the front later in 1917 with the 21.bay.IR, whose Inhaber was the Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. This is why he received the MMV2.
For some states, post-war awards are not uncommon, but this is not true for Schwarzburg. The last awards were made in November 1918. The princely house of Schwarzburg was extinct before this bar was made.
Apparently, none of my suppositions withstand these facts.
Considering he served in a Bavarian unit and in another unit under the auspicious of the Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, perhaps Erbse considered the Schwarzburg cross to be a "foreign" award and put it justifiably at the end of the bar.
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On 10/10/2018 at 06:52, Chris Boonzaier said:
I was wondering if it was a possible way of explaining why it is on the extreme right of the bar, 2 possibilities I could think of
1) As a Schwarzburg native, maybe he had it extreme right so it would be first if he wore it with a Frack?
2) Maybe he wore the bar in this form on civilian/SA/Redcross occasions but with the schwarzburg cross in the buttonhole (in the same way bavarian Bravery medal did) and added it late in life after removing some vereins medal
3) or maybe it is just because some things cannot really be explained, people simply do crazy sht.
I have another explanation. It is really a modified #2 and a little of #3. But above all I try to apply Occam's Razor to the question.
Doctor Fritz Erbse was from Rudolstadt(Schwarzburg) but clearly during the war he was active and recognized by other States when he was awarded combatant class decorations from at least two other States as well as Prussia (EKII).
However before the war he likely served in some capacity (as a Doctor?), in his native Rudolstadt, where I'm guessing he earned a NON-Combatant Schwarzburg Cross (3rd or 4th class). There may have been previous mountings of Dr. Erbse awards before 1934, however in 1934 he decided to mount them again, including the non-combatant Schwarzburg cross, in its correct position at the end of the bar.
It was only after this mounting, that the Principality of Schwarzburg recognized their mistake in not awarding their fellow countryman and back awarded awarded him a COMBATANT Schwarzburg cross for his service in the war. Post war awards are not uncommon.
The Schwarzburg Cross/swords supercedes the non-combatant one both would not be worn. And it's here where the 50+ year old doctor didn't want to "reorder" the whole bar and just requested that with Swords version be swapped in where the non-combatant version was.
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On 07/10/2018 at 07:11, ostprussenmann_new said:
I would leave them as is, however, in order to neutralize further metal corrosion I would take Vaseline and rub a light coat over the metal. This will stop the metal from getting worse.
Or a thin coating of Gun Oil. Its been used for decades by owners of very expensive guns to keep the metal parts from rusting.
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On 23/09/2018 at 17:15, Gensui said:
Gents,
Let me allow to share my little piece of a non-combat frack bar.
I'm wondering if there will be any identification possible...?
BR, Chris
Wonderful bar Chris!
Naval related....Doctor? He was certainly an Officer that should be found in the 1910 Rolls. But without cross-tabulating award rolls I'm not sure how you can find him. You would have to get lucky and "stumble" across the right candidate you was in China and with WWI service.
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On 22/09/2018 at 04:08, Claudio said:
My latest entry... one of my longest bars (17 orders and medals). This officer was a Freikorpskämpfer on the Eastern front right after WWI. Some rare medals on the bar.
Cheers,
C
So you won that bar....great! That is an awesome bar Claudio! There are some really uncommon medals on this bar. He had a long career and I hope the gent can be identified.
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Hallo Rohleder;
I am an advocate for adding ribbons to medals. In my opinion, it completes them.
I think it is a matter of taste on HOW you attach the ribbon -for display purposes. Most of the time, the Russian medals tend to have a unique fold to the ribbon. I attached a link to an imperfect example that I found on this forum, but there are a lot of photographed examples of soldiers wearing their medals this way. It doesn't look like you have a lot of ribbon to work with, so I can understand that you might not be able to duplicate this.
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That is a great period photo of that patch!
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4 minutes ago, Claudio said:
it's almost surely the Brunswick's war merit cross 2nd class https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsverdienstkreuz_(Braunschweig)
Cheers,
C
That's what I wanted to believe too, but it seems awfully dark. More black than blue.
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Thoughts on ribbon #2?
Is this the Bav. Free-City Jubilee 2nd Infantry 1932 medal?
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On 03/08/2018 at 10:18, 03fahnen said:
Apart from the rare combination of medals, there are other elements that allow to see that it is false?
If this bar was made in that narrow period after the Anschluss but before the Hungary and Bulgaria was fully recognized as allied powers, then this would be a special bar.
But I also don't like ribbon #2 -insofar as what I would expect to also be on the ribbon bar and what isn't on the ribbon bar.
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19 minutes ago, filfoster said:
Thank you. It's still a very odd assortment of medals, considering what he could have chosen to wear. And how did he get the Southwest Africa gong? Accompanying the Kaiser as ADC?
Not too odd. The regs on the steel, non-combantant SW medal have that it could be earned for being involved in the preparations to dispatch to the SW colony. Just by the fact of his rank and having to approve orders to move or supply SW troops could be enough.
Isn't that medal often smaller? Could this be a Mecklenburg Military Cross of Merit?
The ribbon color doesn't appear to be a match.
Also a strange choice to wear in preference to others he was entitled to.
He could wear a large assortment of medals, but perhaps he wanted to show his WWI-merit awards upfront.
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I don't recognize it either. But it reminds me a lot of other, well known fantasy pieces.
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38 minutes ago, filfoster said:
EK2/Long Service/SW Afrika ??-how did he get that?/1870-71/?Saxon White Eagle?/Centenary
This seems to not follow the precedence rules.
Hello;
If you look closer, I think you will see that #2 is actually the Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz fur kombattanten. In that light, the precedence rules are properly followed.
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Hello Andreas;
Yes, you are right. The first two certainly are Tughras -Sultan Tughras. Likely, Mehmed V, if it is from the WWI period. To identify them, Tughras are individual and the detailed line work could be compared to known Sultan Tughras.
Otherwise, if the date of the saber's construction is known, then the Turghra would belong to the Sultan who ruled at that time period.
(However, from the small amount of the construction/decoration that you are showing us, I think this saber was likely made during the 1909-18 era.)
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Hello usairforce;
I don't have my Russian medals and awards book with me, but roughly I can tell you what these medals are;
1) Russian Civil War era, White Russian St. George medal.
2) Tsar Peter the Great 200 year commemorative.
3) Red Cross medal -Russo-Japanese war era.
4) Elizabeth Red Cross Jetton - personally engraved.
5) Reign of Alexander III medal.
These names approximate, others will be able to correct or refine my medal identifications.
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4 hours ago, paul wood said:
As usual my joke has back-fired.
welcome to my world...my family is telling me this all the time, and I won't take the hint...
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3 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:
But all jokes aside, the order is fake unfortunately. Yes, they did make fakes in the 90s.
And they made them in the late 80s too. I was burned on two Russian badges that I bought in 1989 from a little militaria shop in London.
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Marvellous photo!
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That is the most medical awards I have ever seen on one bar. Wow.
Bravo!
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Great engravings on the back!
The USS Ranger that the medal is referring to is likely this vessel. He was obviously recognized for his recognized good conduct on this ship and his other assignments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nantucket_(IX-18
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Hello Nikos:
Welcome to GMIC!
Keep in mind this isn't my area of collecting, but I can recognize a great group when I see it. From the pre-WWI/WWI era and all engraved to the same person. A wonderful set.
Individually these medals are not worth that much, but belonging to the same person they become an unique group and would likely attract some interest (if you were looking to sell them).
IMHO -you should put a ribbon on the New York Medal. It wouldn't be that hard to find one. I've included a link to see what the ribbon pattern should look like. Don't worry, adding a replacement ribbon to the medal will not affect the value and will actually improve it.
You can check with the US Navy Archives to see their policy on releasing information on this gentleman. They may have records on him, but they may require that it will be only released to family members.
Ancestors.com may also be an option if you have an account.
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A great bar. The awards really show up well on this presentation.
Like Dave said, he found a match but there could be other matches too.
With the dark blue felt backing, could this be navy? Or not navy because it's not Frack?
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What is this medal
in China
Posted
Oh, I do think it would have value to a collector. The bronze and silver medals are scare, but they do show up from time to time in auction houses. For those who can't wait and want to buy it immediately, there is likely one for sale right now on a website for an unreasonable price. But at a realistic price I believe it would be almost irresistible to a collector of Imperial Korean medals. However, it would take further research to find out what that price would be.