Stogieman

A) No, I'm not saying never..... I'm saying I am having a very hard time accepting this thought process. I think even a basic examination of the quality of this shooting award compared to the badge posted by Mike alone should be enough to conclude we are talking about two very different makers.

B) Again, no clutzy gap here between crown and wreath. Now, if someone can produce any period illustration of this type/style of badge in wear, I will munch down not only my words, my hat.... but their hat as well. I cannot name even one company that ever made both the Prussian and Bavarian badges. There is one exception. There is currently an unknown, but accepted as period badge maker that made badges that bear a consistent (albeit with slight variation) pin/hinge style that would appear to be unique to this maker. These pins are marked 800 for silver content and the badges are available/have been seen in both clich? (stamped) and 2-piece silver style. An example of this badge is illustrated in Niemann's Bewertungs-Katalog, V.II. The badge has been observed as Prussian Pilot, Prussian Observer, (suspected) Bavarian Pilot. Why suspected? I have not been able to put one in my greedy little paws to confirm the style/maker to my own satisfaction. Time will tell.

But I digress, the badge shown by Mike does not conform to any of the known makers nor to any known/accepted style. It does not appear in any known publicized photograph nor in any known archival photo. It does not appear in any work by those who came before us (Chalif, O'Conner, Nimmergut, Niemann).

Is it possible, sure, anything's possible. But is it probable...... to me, that's a whole other story.

OK, paper looks wrong, printing/writing is wrong.... what the heck unit is that supposed to be? Cripes I know doodly about paper and even my poor eyes can see the fake.....

I have seen exactly two of these that I liked. Both in real silver, albeit stamped (clich?) design, both with cut-out crowns, both marked 800 on the pin.

Hi Chris, nice snag and a bargain price as well. Watched you bid until the end.

Interesting..... have not seen this variation before, nor have I ever seen a produced piece with altered silver hallmarks. Quite a puzzle.

I have never said this bar is fake, I have merely stated that in my eyes, this does not match the Godet bars that Rick Research is attributing this one to.

Again, my apologies if I belabored my point endlessly.

perhaps the technical difficulties has prevented the "Other Rick" from visiting....... Any pix of the tunic yet Joe so we can really get our teeth into this?

I can probably help on the Long Service Medal, no "spare" SSHM's laying about though. That one will be easy enough to find in Germany. Try Kai Winkler's site while his "sale" is still on....

Yep, this one has certainly been passed around a bit. I remember when Mark first posted it up at the other place.

I'm sorry, I am just having a very hard time following and accepting this thought process on this badge. Also, I do not think you can equate an obvious cast badge with swedged on crown with this die-struck/stamped piece. In the end, we must each make the decisions we are comfortable with and if Mike is happy with the badge, then all the best... My only concern is with even the rarest styles/rarest makers of these, I have seen/handled, or at least seen photographs, of multiple examples of a piece. I poured through (literally) thousands of photographs and cannot come up with even one example of a P/B like this with the gap between the wreath and crown. Bavarian or Prussian.

I think this badge will need more provenance and historical representation before I can accept it as a period-made badge. But that's my feeling and nothing more.

As an observation though, the quality of the wreath/body seems to be much better than the quality of the crown.

These could be 1918 bars as well. The RCM3 was issued in zinc starting in late 1917/early 1918 if memory serves.

I would concur with Bob on this one. This fellow's insane (as it must have been) act of bravery resulted in a horrific wound that put him out of the service long before his paperwork could be processed for an EK2

I agree with Joe, these last few additions from both sides of the pond have been fantastic! Some very rare pieces.......

Wedding's bar is not mounted as a "Frack" in this PK..... it's just tilted to fit!

OK, that's the first time I've seen one of these on a mini chain.

Nice thread guys & gals.. this is a medal we don't see very often at all and Heiko's bar set is fantastic!

Hi Tom, really like that little enameled ribbon pair!

Chuck, nice photos. Dave tantalizing glimpse of the "War Room"!

What a wonderful thread and so many wonderful objects! Thanks!

Well, as the other Rick says.......... 100% positive feedback means nothing when left by morons.......

Have you guys ever seen the screwbacks soviet website? Looks like oodles of detail and information and NOT a sales site!

Greetings Matthias, thanks much. I would feel really cheesey giving a reproduction to my friend. Thanks!!

Hi Daniel! Merry Christmas to you and your family. Excellent Medal Bar!

Whoops! Bob! STILL one of the finest Bavarian SBM groups I've ever seen!

Heiko, Yes, Nordwind had it last year. I kept asking for additional photos, but no response. Yes, I know he sells many pieces that are wrong. The thing is, just like with Manion's... one can find diamonds in all the rough....... I liked the piece, even though it was wrong to the bar. I liked what I could see, but wanted to see more.

Reverse of the badge: