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    Stogieman

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    Posts posted by Stogieman

    1. Anybody see this one pop up this AM? Anyone know the history of this piece?

      Photo courtesy of Detlev Niemann, Hamburg

      Grandcross of the Iron Cross 1914 [4753] Sold State II

      Iron core, fine silver frame. width 61 mm. Very good details and quality. This cross is illustrated in several reference books as period second issue or museum display cross. With nice ribbon.

    2. I'd like to make a suggestion. Tom, many of us have no clue what we're discussing here, but have a serious interest in how this plays out on moral, ethical, curiosity or whatever grounds. You're going way too fast for us students and we're entering into a debate over what constitutes real vs. fake as a broad-spectrum topic as opposed to a specific topic RE the pieces that started the thread.

      Could we please table the discussion until some decent photographs of originals, suspect and outright fakes can be placed out here to make this a little easier for us neophytes to follow?

      I know that many of you know exactly what's being discussed here, but for many of us, we need to see some examples of what's OK, what is suspected as not OK and a comparison thereof.

      Thanks!!

    3. Here's my philosophy with "deviations"........ if I see one, I don't sweat it too much. 2 or 3 that have never been seen before, makes me stop and look real hard and start asking many questions. A dozen or more on dealer sites within 6 months. Start thinking "brake lights". I'm not ready to scream fake, I'd like to see a lot more pictures, a lot clearer pictures and a lot more examples of it first. Call me a fool, but I've tried real hard to keep the paranoia out of my collecting. Maybe that's why I never really wanted a DK or RK......... OK, well maybe one in silver.....

    4. Well Brian, my philosophy usually is find one deviation........ I don't worry too much. But if a dozen show up on eBay or "dealer" sites in the next 6 months......... well, what can you say to that? What I find exceptionally interesting is that the commander grades of the PCO & RAO seem to languish on German dealer sites... even ones with swords. And every major auction has 3-6 RAO's in mint condition that are not touched by (assuming, yes) the most discerning collectors of same in the world. It gives me pause.

      Since these were not "batch" made, I expect minor differences. A "shadow" around the eagle?? Never seen that, or if I have, never noticed it. is there one around yours Brian??

    5. Hi Tom, to bring me up to speed....... both the klein and dot piece are considered/accepted as fake? or only the dot piece with the klein cross debated still?

      I have heard of "lightweight" DK's, were these made by multiple makers, or strictly Zimmermann?

      If made by multiple makers, do other maker's two pieces differ significantly in construction, or strictly in weight??

      Thanks!

    6. Additional foto, hinges.

      Please note, in my eyes, even with these very fuzzy pictures, I see way more consistency in these two hinges than perhaps others do. But, note the very sharp contrast in the shape of the "star" points immediately above both upper corners of the hinge block......... the hinge, the mounting block and the pin are so close impossible to call, but the "star" very big differences.

      Is it possible for one maker to have two very different stars?

    7. OK, here's a series of photos provided by Tom. I'd like to preface a further discussion on this controversy with a couple of points/observations/recommendations.

      A) Whatever "baggage" anyone is carrying, please leave it at the door when you come here. Is it a perfect world? Certainly not. However, we can all conduct ourselves as Gentleman when discussing even a difference of opinion. Or we can certainly learn to. Please keep this in mind when participating on this forum.

      B) In my opinion after reviewing these montage shots, the two crosses are different pieces.

      C) I do not believe these images to be of "diagnostic quality". I would not venture to even attempt to infer authenticity of either DKiG based on these pictures. I'm pretty good with photo interpretation and have made it a "required" skill. I couldn't work with these pix.

      D) I'm not a DK/RK guy. My opinions are based strictly on the pix provided.

      So......... enjoy the debate and for Jiminy Cricket's sake, get some better photos to work with before we go diving into a mud puddle. Let the civil discourse commence!

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