pieter1012

Hi all,

although not my main area of collecting, I could buy recently an attractive grand officer star of the Lion & the Sun for a reasonable price. It is a small 6 ray star (8cm diameter) and the ray at 4 o'clock looks repaired. The center medaillon is very nicely painted with an eye for details. It has no maker or silver marks, so I went through this long but very interesting thread on the order. What I learned is that most European made stars have a nameplate on the back, and that usually the grand officer star consists of 7 rays. Therefore I think my star could be a locally Persian made one.

Actually, in post nbrs 424 and 425 (2012) Owain pictures a similar small sized star. However he doesn't mention a maker or from which period it might be, so I wonder if Owain, if he reads this, or any other member of this forum could give me some information on the possible maker and time period.

Thanks and regards, Pieter

Hi, I have also one, with bar Malaya, named to a Chinese; 2046 Teh Meng Seng. C,L.C.  (a komma after the C) I bought it long time ago and must admit that I never tried to find out what those initials meant, but I guess this is a good opportunity to do so. If anyone can help me, many thanks.

regards, Pieter

Najaf Coins has an original Garter collar from 1878 for sale, for $1,250,000. Need to win the Euro Lottery jackpot to be able to afford that.

Hi Tifes,

thanks for giving the sizes of the different classes of the Iron Crown, and the orders you show are beautiful. The third class looks especially finely made.

regards, Pieter

hi Tifes,

thank you for your valuable comments. As with the third class (commander) an eclipse ring was used to hang the order on a ribbon around the neck, could it be that the neckbadge had the same size as the sashbadge of the first class?                             Yes, I am very happy with the set I have, it is a beauty to look at.

Regards, Pieter

Hi Tifes,

the suspension ring could also indicate it was the pendant for the grand cross of The Iron Crown. However, I don't know if the size for both pendants are the same. Anyway, as you wrote already, a very nice piece. For comparisson I have include pictures of the Iron Crown First class I have, which has the same hallmarks as that of Christian.

regards, Pieter

Jim,

a very nice late war Iron Cross Spange document. I have also a very late war Iron Cross document, signed on 1 May 1945 by generaloberst von Blaskowitz, as commander of the German Forces in the Netherlands during the closing days of the war.

Four days later he was signing the instrument of surrender to the Canadian general Foulkes, in a hotel in the eastern part of the Netherlands. Because of its connection to the war in my country, I like this document.

Hi Demir,

sorry if my question confused you. I just wanted to add that the size could determine the class.

Anders, you should measure diameter of the star from point to point. Then, looking at your photo, your star should be around 85 - 86 mm so most likely, a 2d class star.

Regards, Pieter

Yes, as Asvar already mentioned, a very nice Ottoman made breaststar.

Demir, would it not depend on the size of the star whether it is 1st class or 2d class? I always thought that the 1st class stars are larger than the 2d class ones. I have a 1st class star that is 98 cm diameter and a 2d class one that is 88 cm, so 1 cm difference(see picture). Or is that coïncidence?

Anders, look at my stars to see what Demir means with the allignment.

Regards, Pieter

Hi Nick,

thanks for your comment. The text says a.o. that this cane is reserved for distinguished persons of over 80 years old and that the wooden part is made of the mulberry tree, which, according to Japanese belief, protects against cripling in old people.

We me everything is well, only unfortunately too little time to spend on our common hobby, because of grandchildren demanding attention.

Best regards, Pieter

hi Alex,

just saw your thread on the cane admiral Inoue is holding. Egorka is right, it is a dove. This cane with silver dove (hato tsue) was a special Imperial Court distinction, personally bestowed by the Japanese emperor. Perhaps something comparable to the golden key Chamberlains wear on the back of their uniform at European Courts. It was seldom bestowed and unfortunately I have not been able to find out the exact reasons for bestowel. On of the most famous recipients was admiral Togo, and he is often seen in pictures holding it.

This distiction was not limited to the army or navy, also civilians could receive it. Although i have never seen a picture of a fieldmarshall holding it. Prime minister Takahashi Korekyo was, after retirement, one of the cilvilan recipients (see picture).

The well known Japanese medal collector Nakabori describes this hato tsue in one of his order and medal books, but does not mention the reason for bestowal, or the number given. I have enclosed i picture from this book.

Hope this information is of some use, Pieter

Brett,

congatulations, a very nice set. The bar with numeral 2 stands for two tours of duty and is rare as only 516 were issued. With no numeral, around 3500 were issued and with numeral 3 for three tours of duty, 38 were issued. Apparently one bar with 4 was issued to a military chaplain, but there is no documentation on this and the whereabouts of the medal is unknown.

Many Dutch Korea veterans did not have their medals mounted, so a display like yours is not uncommon.

Regards,

Pieter

Hi Brett,

nice that you could get the Dutch medals for the Korean war. To make the group complete, the Korean war service medal should be added.

Unlike in the UK and the Commonwealth, when only in 2001 permission was given to receive this medal, members of the Dutch army received this medal straight after the war and were allowed to wear it on uniform. So most Dutch Korea groups include this medal. Such groups are indeed hard to identify, unless it comes with the award certificates or other provenance.

For your interest I have added pictures of the certificates belonging to the three medals a typical Dutch Korean war veteran would receive.

Regards, Pieter

Here a Canadian Korean war pair I have that is named to SK 800227 R Yee. (sorry for the poor quality of the pictures). Some paperwork came with it stating that Act. Sgt. Richard Yee joined the 2d Bn PPLCI in Calgary in August 1950 and served in Korea from 18-12-'50 to 07-03-'53. What makes it interesting is that Yee is a Canadian (Saskatchewan Prov.) from Korean descent, so could it be that he was used in Korea for interpreting purposes?

regards, Pieter

Although Purple Heart documents issued for the Korean war come on the market from time to time, this one I have is interesting in that it was awarded to someone from a unit that apparently consisted of all African American soldiers. The document came with a picture of the unit; Stokes is standing in the first row, fourth from left, as indicated by an arrow he probably put there himself. Unfortunately, the set came without his Purple Heart.

regards, Pieter

Thanks for the nice comments

I am indeed very happy to have them in my collection, and the actual documents look nicer than the pictures in my posts show.

regards, Pieter

Hi Chris,

thank you very much for the information and the nice samples of non combattant Iron Cross documents you have shown. So now I know that there are a number of variations of this document. I especially like the one from the heeresabwickelungsambt.

Best regards, Pieter

hi All,

If I am correct, for the first WW around 13,000 non combattant Iron Crosses second class were awarded. The only award documents for this Iron Cross I have seen are the ones like I have in collection, of which a picture is attached.

My question is whether all non combattant Iron Cross documents were issued by the Generalkommission with a printed signature of Kanitz. Does someone perhaps have samples of other types?

Thanks and regards,

Pieter

Owen,

Fortunately, sometimes french dealers of orders and medals offer Napoleontic documents such as the award document for the Legion d'Honneur, that's how I could obtain them.  The paper used for these documents is very nice too; it has as watermark the imperial eagle. If you ever happen to visit Paris, you should visit the Musee nationale de la Legion d'Honneur; a treasure trove if you are interested in the Napoleontic area. I have spent many many hours there.

regards,Pieter

Owen,

explained very shortly, the attestation is about the capture of an enemy canon by then Unterofficier (petty officer) Stuerz during the battle at Katzbach on 26 August 1813. During a counter attack by  the enemy cavalry, Stuerz got captured, although the canon could be brought into the lines of the Prussians. Assuming Stuerz was killed, the undersigned, count Zu Eulenburg, then commander of the Prussian Hussars regiment, did not recommend Stuerz for an Iron Cross.  He states that it is his dutyful debt to now  draw up this attestation. Signed 29 July 1816 by Count zu Eulenberg, major of the 7th Hussars Regiment. Presumably, as a result of this statement, Stuerz, by then 1st Lieutenant, received the Iron Cross on 23d October 1816.

I keep my award documents in acid free paper files

Regards, Pieter

Hi Owen and Chris,

thanks for your kind words. although my main collecting interest are the awards themselves, the related documents have indeed a more personal touch.

Chris, Lt Stuerz was still a petty officer during the action for which he was awarded the Iron Cross. With the document came an original transcript of the attestation from his commanding officer who recommended him for the award. Fortunately a modern "translation" was included, otherwise it would have been impossible to read. I have enclosed pictures of both.

Owen, if you go to the forum France, under the thread 1st Empire Legion d'Honneur, I have posted two award documents of the Legion d'Honneur during the reign of Napoleon. One is from 1809 and the other from May 1815 (awarded during the 100 days and therefore quite rare). both are signed by the Grand Chancelier, Comte de Lacepede, who was the first Chancellor of the Legion of Honour, dismissed in 1814 by King Louis, but re instated by Napoleon in April 1815. So you can add two more Napoleonic era award documents you have seen.

Regards, Pieter

Colin,

thanks for the information about Dunn's awards.

regards, Pieter

Hi Colin,

very nice and realistic model of Dunn. Did you make it yourself?

According to Honour the Light Brigade of Lummis, his VC and medals are in his former highschool in Toronto. I wonder if they are still there.

Rgeards, Pieter

Paul,

that could indeed have been the case, didn't think of that. In the period till 1814, as far as I know, the nominee would first be notified of the Emperor's decision by an avis provisoire from the Chief of Staff Berthier. Later, the official award document would follow. So it could well be that in 1815 there was a backlog of Legion d'Honneur documents that still had to be issued. For interest of the reader, I have enclosed here a copy of such avis provisoire for a nomination in officer LdH in 1811.

Funny thing though, is that with the 100 days the numbering of the documents apparently started again from no.1.  Included is a picture of an award document from the 100 days period of 29 May 1815 and is numbered 2,866. Also,  the document mentions the date of nomination, so, it could actually have been issued much later. The document is simpler than the document from the first period, but still signed by the Grand Chancelier, comte de Lacapéde.

To compare, I have added a document from the first period, dated 1809, numbered 21898 (although I am not sure of the 1, could be a narrow 9). No date of the nomination by Napoleon is mentioned. 

Much is written about the Legion d'Honneur itself, but on the (for me at least) interesting aspect of the documents, very little has been written. Of course any additional information on this subject is most welcome.

regards, Pieter

In studying the history of the Legion d'Honneur during the First Empire, it is hard to find details on the number of LOH's awarded during the so-called 100 days, from 20th March till 22d June, 1815. As the Palace of the Legion d'Honneur was burned by the communards in 1871, many archives are lost. However, a figure of around 6,000 is sometimes mentioned in books on the LOH (of course for the battle of Waterloo no LOH's were awarded).  This seems to me quite a high number, if one considers that during the whole period from July 1802 untill April 1814, around 37,000 LOH's were awarded. 

If any member has read about another number, I would like to hear that.  If 6,000 is more or less correct, poor Grand Chancellor of the Legion d'Honneur, Comte de Lacépede, must have had a busy 100 days, signing all the award documents for these LOH's.

regards, Pieter