pieter1012

the seller writes that the hook for attaching the Sacred Treasure is missing, so there is no certainty that the original order was a 7th or 8th class Sacred Treasure. it could well have been a 6th or 5th class which got detached and replaced later by someone else with a (cheaper) 7th or 8th class. The bar must have been made up after 1939 because of the presence of the War Merit Cross. The ribbon of the Sacred Treasure looks indeed like a Meiji/Taisho era one like Nick indicates, but perhaps the tailor still had old ribbon in stock from that period. In 1940 the Japanese Foreign Minister Matsuoka made an official visit to Berlin to sign the Tripartite Alliance and at that time many German officials received Japanese orders. Could it be that the owner of the bar was in some way involved with this visit and received the Sacred Treasure 5th or 6th class? He could have been working at the German Foreign Ministry, second secretary rank would get a 5th class Sacred Treasure. In that case the War Merit cross (perhaps received from the German government for work done for the Japanese visit?) must have been without swords.

Just some thoughts from my side.

Pieter

Hi Nick,

thanks for the pictures, I saw this one on Yahoo Jp too and have (through an acquaintance in Japan) successfully bid on it. However, I am almost sure this is not a Boxer rebellion award, but an early Russo-Japanese war posthumous award. The date is 5 March 1904, to army major Hiroshi Ogita, about one month after hostilities between the two countries started. The number on the document is 6334. As only 200 Golden Kites were awarded for the Boxer rebellion, if someone has a list it could be verified.

Although I write posthumous, in the olden days no person was "posthumously" decorated with an order. If somebody died and he was given an award by the Emperor after his demise, the date of the award would be put on the date of death, so theoretically he would still be living when he received the order. By the way, this did not apply to the medals.

Best regards,

Pieter

For those collectors of Japanese medals who are interested in 1874 Taiwan medal, but don't have one yet, the British auction house Spink has one for sale in its November 21 auction, lot nr. 317. Good condition with original ribbon, estimate 2500 British pounds.

Pieter

Hi DrClaw,

the picture in Imperial robes must have been taken after 31 August 1907. Lu is wearing on his right upper breast the oval commemorative medal of the Second International Peace Conference, which was awarded by the Netherlands government to the delegates of the conference. The Heads of Delegation (Mr. Lu was Head of the Chinese delegation) received their medal during a banquet offered by the Netherlands government on 31 August 1907.

Regards,

Pieter

Hi Rogi,

Nick asked me to look at the handwriting, and although I am no expert in Japanese characters, the way katakana is written in general is quite standard, although there are of course always small differerences in the way a person writes.

Looking at the way Serbia is written on the rosette box and the other documents I personally doubt whether it is written by the same person. The characters on the document are more curved, clearly distinguishable in the third and fourth character. Also, the third character "bi" has also almost dot like marks to denote the hi into bi on the document, whereas on the box the writer has made clear strokes.

Then again, the writer may have added Serbia on the box in haste, but took more care when writing the document.

Best regards,

Pieter

Hi Nick,

first of all, thanks for the pictures. Actually, I was referring to a picture of a Golden Kite document for the 1900 Boxer rebellion of which in all classes only 200 were issued. They shoulod be dated either Meiji 34 or 35. The 1894 Golden Kite I fortunately have already in my collection, one of which is also a fourth class GK awarded to Akashi Motojiro, known for his spy actions in the Russo=Japanese war.

Regards,

Pieter

Hi History Greek,

to elaborate further on Nick's comments, according to my Japanese sources, during the reign of Emperor Meiji a total of 10,039 5th class Golden Kites were awarded, of which 1639 documents were not signed by the Emperor. Presumably most, if not all, of these 5th class unsigned documents were for the Russo-japanese war, considering that during the 1894 Sino-Japanese war only 2000 Golden Kites in total were awarded and for the 1900 Boxer rebellion in total only 200 Golden Kites. Needless to say that the latter documents are very hard to find. Actually, I have never seen one in any class. Nick, if you have a picture of one, could you post it?

To complete the picture, from the Meiji period all 1st and 2d class Golden kite documents were signed by the Emperor, five 3d class and 49 fourth class were unsigned.

Best regards,

Pieter

Nick,

first of all thank you for posting the pictures of the Red ribbon medal.

Chris, I have no additional material on Mudie apart from what came with the medal when I acquired it, and Nick already quoted in the thread.

Best regards,

Pieter

Hi Jeff,

this is the Dutch Rijksveldwacht Medaille, according to my dictionary Rijksveldwacht can be translated as Village Police. The medal was established in 1909 on occasion of the 50th anniversary of the Village Police, and was awarded for 25 year of faithful service. In 1941 the German occupation authority abolished the Rijksveldwacht and the medal was no longer awarded. Because of its short existence, it is seldom seen on the market.

Hope this information is useful,

Pieter

Hi Azyeoman,

I am not an expert in the Japanese language, therefore, with a few exceptions, I tend to shy away from making translations. Mistakes are easily made. However as Brian advised you to contact me,I looked at the Japanese text on the scabard. The side with the date is very difficult to decipher, but I recognize 19 nen 11 gatsu, which is indeed November 1934. The one line characters on the other side is a dedication. I will first write what I think is written in Japanese, so the experts amongst us can check if it is correct, and then the meaning according to my interpretation.

The first character is the character for horse, ba, from kibatai; cavalry, the second and third character stand for shosha or major. So it concerns a major of the cavalry. Then comes the name which is always a headache in Japanese, because often the character cannot be pronounced in its original meaning. looking at the second character, combined with as roof the character for ichi, my conclusion is that the name is Kazumi, which is an existing Japanese family name. The fourth character stands for nagai; long, the fifth for i or ikki; to mind, to care, the last character has a small character attached underneath which reads as sonnen, old style writing of; in memory of. Concluding I would translate it as " (to) cavalry major Kazumi in memory of longlasting friendship". Most likely the giver was a certain Sojuro of the Army HQ.

I will go to Japan beginning of next month,and, if have time, will ask some expert friends to look at the characters again.

Hope this is of any help,

Pieter

Hi DrClaw,

I will send you the picture of my grandfather in Dragon robe to the email address you mention, with some pictures of the robe itself. I don't think my grandfather was a manderin, he was a civil official of the Qing dynasty. As you will see in the picture I will send you, the robe has no square on the chest, as the manderin robes did, but the image of a fiveclawed dragon.

A reason my grandfather remained in Beijing could be because, according to my mother, my grandfather admired Dr. Sun Yat-sen, but disliked Chiang Kai-chek. Although I have not been able to verify it, my uncle mentioned that his father joined the Revolutionary Committee of the Kuomintang after it was established in 1948, with the widow of Dr. Sun, Soong-Ling as its honorary chairman. This committee opposed the policies of Chiang Kai-chek.

I forgot to add in my previous post, and perhaps interesting for Nick, my grandfather returned to Russia in 1925, as consul-general of the republic of China in Leningrad, where he stayed for two years.

Best regards,

Pieter

Nick,

first of all thanks for posting the picture of my maternal grandfather. You will have noticed that he had the neckbadge of the St Stanislaus order. That is from the period that he worked as a diplomat at the Imperial Chinese legation in St. Petersburg.

To answer Dr.Claw's question, unfortunately I don't have his decorations. According to my chinese uncle, the family had them till the cultural revolution. My uncle, who inherited the personal belongings of his father, was working for the Chinese People's Bank, the national bank of the PRC in the sixties. Despite the name of the bank, the red guards considered him a capitalist and his house with all family possesions was ransacked. Fortunately, my mother received just after the war, the official Chinese Dragon robe with the rainbow colours from her father that he used to wear at the Chinese court during the Imperial days. I have this robe now and also a picture of him wearing it. If you want to see this picture of him at younger age, I'll have to ask Nick again, athough he has there a thinner moustache and no Tiger but a Dragon on his chest.

My grandfather joined the Tsungli-Yamen (Bureau for Foreign Affairs during the last dynasty) and was sent to the Chinese legation in Paris to study french and work at the Legation. He was later posted to Berlin and St. Petersburg. After the establishment of the Republic he became Mayor of Tientsin (probably because he spoke good English and French with some German, useful for contacts with the foreign settlements in the city). Later Minister of Communication and Transport, where he was much involved in expanding the railways.

During the war with Japan, he did not flee to Chongqing, but remained in Beijing and where possible, obstructed the Japanese. In appreciation of that, the communists, after the takeover in 1949, gave him a small house and state pension in Beijing, although he belonged to the "wrong" class. He also could keep his personal belongings. However, he never liked the communist system and died in 1963, luckily before the cultural revolution that has done so much damage to China.

Best regards,

Pieter

Hi DrClaw,

I didn't know you are Chinese, my mother is Chinese from Beijing, and her father had also moustache. Nothing compared to the moustache of the japanese in the picture, but still nice looking. As I still don't know how to place pictures on the forum, I have sent Nick a picture of my maternal grandfather, taken in the early thirties when he was Minister of Communication and Transport of China.

Best regards,

Pieter

Nick,

it is a book about general Korechika Anami, who was Minister of the Army who committed suicide in the traditional Japanese way (seppuku) right after signing the surrender document of the Suzuki cabinet on 15 August 1945.

Pieter

Hi Dieter,

thank you for showing this beautiful document, I have always wondered how a women's document would look like. In all my years of collecting I have never encountered this one, although the medal itself comes frequently on the market.

Best regards,

Pieter

Dieter,

yes there is also a Showa 7, 3-gatsu wrapper; I have one. Except for the date everything is the same as for the other ones.

The women's issue of the medal is official, and mine comes with the typical square case for women. I will bother Nick again and send him tomorrow some pictures of it to post here, since I still don't know how to do that.

Pieter

Nick,

you are right, I immediattely checked my two Capital Rehabilitation medals; one the regular issue for men and one with the bow ribbon for women. Both have the M mark.

Pieter

Does anyone know what the difference is of the wrap with Showa 6th year, 2-gatsu (February) and Showa 7th year 3-gatsu (March). Was the later issue to award claims for the medal that came in later?

Pieter

Richard,

thanks again for the nice pictures from the collection of Okuma.

The Belgian one is the Grandcross order of Leopold (civil division). The case is wrong; belongs to the Italian order of the Crown (U on the lid is for Umberto)

The second order is the Grandcross of the order of the Red Eagle of Prussia and the third one is the grandcross of the order of Villa Vicosa of Portugal.

Pieter

Richard,

thank you for the very nice pictures of Okuma's foreign orders which clearly have been very well kept throughout the years. The french one is the Grandcross of the Legion of Honour, and the other one is the Grandcross of the order of the Iron Crown of Austria (empire).

Pieter

Chris,

I am a digillitarate and don't know how to put pictures on GMIC. But if you go to the site of Richard (imperialjapanmedalsandbadges) under Grandcordon a picture is shown of Kato's order of the Chrysanthemum document, which he received posthumously on 28 January 1926. The Grandcordon shown by Richard is not Kato's, but his looks exactly the same.

Hope this is of some use to you,

Pieter

The Japanese document is indeed an early permission to wear document. The text also says so and the issue number (138) refers to the registration of foreign awards. I think the Japanese initially copied this system from the french. Their earlier permission to wear documents issued by the Grand Chancellor of the Legion d'Honneur also has a colored picture of the foreign award concerned. Because of the high costs of making such documents, the Japanese probably later switched to the permission to wear documents without any picture.

These pictured permission to wear documents are very rare, I have only seen one other one before (for the Grandcross Crown of Italy to marquis Tokudaiji) in the collection of a Japanese fellow collector. Unfortunately, he didn't want to sell or trade.

Richard, thank you for showing this nice document to us.

Pieter

Regarding the Constitution medal document, prime minister Ito Hirobumi must have gotten #1.

As a side note, Okuma's later foreign minister Kato Takaaki was in 1889 Okuma's secretary (gaimu daijin hishyokan) and he too got the Consitution medal, the award certificate numbered 477.

Pieter

Richard,

checked my books and on 14 july 1916 Okuma received the order of the Chrysanthemum (grand cordon).

Pieter

Hi Richard,

beautiful pieces of a very important staesman and educator. Are these orders exhibited in the Marquis Okuma memorial musuem in Saga? I still plan to visit it some day.

Only, are you sure the date you mentioned that Okuma received his order of the Rising Sun with Pauwlonia is correct? The Peerage of Japan lists him already with it in it's publication of 1912. You may be mistaken with Okuma's foreign minister during his second cabinet, Kato Takaaki. Kato received his Paulownia on July 14th 1916, after he resigned as foreign minister (I have his order and Pauwlonia document in my collection)

Best regards,

Pieter