WRANGEL

Thanks Paul,

I am not even sure this badge is related to the Luftwaffe, it could as well be a Kriegsmarine unit emblem. I have found nothing sofar.

Best regards and happy New Year.

Bill

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the information.

Best regards

Bill

Sorry Oxy,

but I think that all orders, badges on sale by Berg983 are fakes.

Cheers

Bil

The only problem with this award being the price (unless you are a member of the Bratva that is to say the Russian mafia and have plenty of cash without knowing what to do with it), otherwise everything is correct, marks from Eduard and Varvara Dietwald, Hallmarks for gold and SPB, even the ribbon seems original.

Best regards

Bill

Hi CMF,

I can just tell you that "K&K- Praha" is Czechslovakia's most famous maker: Karnet & Kisely in Prag.

I think the badge was made in Yugoslavia and that the owner having lost the original 2 nuts had them replaced by 2 nuts from K&K, but this is only a supposition.

Is it possible to have a close up of the hallmark ? The rooster in the pentagon is Serbia hallmark for silver, there should be also a roman numeral for silver fineness, in this case II.

Best regards

Bill

Hi,

Here are mine. First 3 badges were found together, the badge portraying General Mihailovic is French made (probably for Serbian emigrees), as for the other two I have no idea where they have been produced.

Regarding the last badge I believe it was a cap badge (it has two pin on reverse), but which service ?

Best regards

Bill

Great thread, very informative.

Thank you Gentlemen.

Bill

Nothing to do with this topic but Emperor Franz-Josef was also a Marshall of the Russian Imperial Army. Is pair of Marshall shoulder boards can be seen in the superb Heeresgeschichtliches Museum in Wien besides almost all his decorations.

Cheers

Bill

He has the badge of the 2e REP (Regiment Etranger de Parachutistes) tatooed and the mention 2 R E P on his knucles so he must be have been (or still is) a member of the French Foreign Legion. This is France top elite unit.

Cheers

Bill

Hi Luftmensch,

This pair of shoulder boards were for a Leutenant of the Guard, either of the Navy unit of the Guard or an Aide de camp. If your friend is not interested in these soulder boards, please contact me (pm)

Best regards

Hi Dave,

Nice grouping, I think this Polkovnik (= Colonel) belonged to the Azerbaijan army, the crescent and star are typical of this army which was mostly composed of muslims. Green is a sacred colour in islam.

Best regards

Bill

Sorry for this late response I was busy with some other topics.

Like all French decorations (Legion of Honor, Military Medal, Colonial Medal, and so on...) there is a registration number for every recipient of an order or medal, but this number is not intented to be struck on the award.

I must confess I have hastly written that a Francisque Gallique order numbered would be a fake, this is not true, it would only have been privately (and I insist on the term privately) numbered by the recipient. I have seen a 3rd Republic Legion of Honor knight's cross numbered, not only is this completely inofficial but I am not even sure if the number struck on this LOH would have matched the registration number of the recipient (unfortunatelly there was no diploma with it).

It had never been the intention of the French government to have the Francique Gallique numbered (the Journal Officiel of the 16 october 1941 and 26 may 1941 does not mention that the badges are numbered) otherwise the only 2 makers (Arthus-Bertrand in Paris and Augis in Lyon) of this order would have left a blank space to engrave the number.

I believe the confusion regarding so called "numbered Francisque" comes from the fact that this emblem as been widely used by numerous movements and organisations of the "Vichy Government". The use of the symbol of the francisque to be reproduced on badges, vases, plates, posters, wallet, and all kind of other objects was supposed to be submitted to an agreement committee. This committee would reject or allow the use of the francisque design, hence the O.A. (Objet Authorise) followed by a number you can find on some badges and objects. This has nothing to do with a registration number, it is in fact close to the German Ges. Gesch.

I have seen hundreds of the Francique Gallique from both makers, none where numbered. A few years ago an important lot of badges of this order came onto the market. These badges had been seized by the Police at the Liberation and had remained stocked for 50 years. None were numbered.

But as I said, one could always decide to have his badge numbered, but this is a private initiative !

There is no real fake of the Francique Gallique, because this order is not that difficult to find and the market for this order is small. There is a copy made JMF Collection and sold as such.

I will post some Photos in a near future.

Best regards

Bill

Yes Don,

I confirm this is the Österreich KuK Marine 1. Weltkrieg U-Boot Kriegsabzeichen

Best regards

Bill

Never seen this one. I believe it is not an eagle but a seagull, so middle letter could be an N for Nautic, but that is only supposition.

Best regards

Bill

I Think it is a mayor's badge. I have seen 2 or 3 of these, all were in their case of issue and all were in silver and named on the back.

Best regards

Bill

You are right about multiple transfers from this camp to others, but as I said this was not the purpose of a "Camp de Rassemblement des Etrangers".

Many thanks for chatting with me on this subject.

Best regards.

Bill

Colin,

I do not agree with you at all. These Russian guys, ex-communist apparatchiks and new capitalists moguls, would have killed (just a few years ago) the people whom they are now seeking avidly their badges, medals, orders and souvenirs. They are just appropriating a part of history, but be sure they are not willing to recognised Russia's faults towards the Russian emigrees. Not only have they ######ed up the market concerning Russian militaria (not to mention all the extremely well made fakes coming now from Russia for the western market) but they are also putting their dirty hands on the Orthodox Cathedral in Nice (there are so many nice souvenirs that would look great in some Datchas or Penthouses in Moscow) and also on the Imperial Guard Museum in Paris (how long before it will be relocated in Leningrad or Moscow ?).

Thanks God, Pashkov, Chaperon, and a few others Russian emigrees collecting Imperial Russian and white armies badges-orders-medals and others souvenirs, are not here anymore to see what's going on nowadays !!! R.I.P.

They are killing the Russian emigrees a second time. The FSB is achieving what the Tcheka had started. In the thirties the Russian communists would kidnapped the Russian emigrees (General Miller and General Koutiepov for instance) and bring them back to Russia to kill them. Now they are bringing back their souvenirs !

Yours sincerely

Bill

I agree with iffig, this should be a distinctive of the Division San Marco, but I think this badge dates prior to the RSI, since the bible held in the Lion's claw is open (wereas it was closed during the RSI because of the words "Pax Tibi Marce Evangelista Meus" not very relevant in war time).

Best regards

Bill

Hi TacHel,

"Camp de Rassemblement des Etrangers" must not be confused with "Camp de Transition". Some CRE were created prior to WWII for Spanish refugees (of the Spanish civil war), or even German and Austrian suspects (the fifth column).

During WWII you would find in the CRE: Spanish refugees, Germans or Austrians who had fleed the Reich, captured allied soldiers, gypsies, apatrids, anti-fascist Italians... Detainees were supposed to stay in these camps, unless they would behave badly (escape, rebellion...) or for other superior reasons.

In the Camps de transition the detainees were held for a limited amount of time before being sent to another camp (that is to say mainly to the concentration camps in Germany), this camps were for Jews but also for prisonners of war who had tried to escape or rebelled, political prisonners, homosexuals, law-breakers, gypsies, asocials, Jehova's Witnesses and religious free-thinkers, and so on... Le Camp des Mille, Drancy, Gurs, Pithiviers, Beaune-la-Rolande, Royallieu...are the most well known Camps de transition.

Cheers

Bill

Hi Chris,

The French unit pin is the "Escadrille 7B" badge, this bombing squadron did not belonged to the French Air Force but to the "Aeronautique Navale" (= French Navy), the usual maker of this badge is R. Malan. Marseille.

The French Pilot badge is a replacement type, the one on the tunic seems to be the official issued one (it should be numbered on the back).

Do you have the Eagle badge that appears on 2 photos (the portrait in bust and when he his decorated with the Legion of Honor by General Gouraud), I have never seen this one and I am wondering what it is.

Best regards

Bill

Hi TacHel,

Thanks for the reply. Ok, your right about this camp being on the outskirt of Paris.

This camp was a "Centre de Rassemblement des Etrangers" and a great number of captured British soldiers where sent there (and Canadian soldiers as well). I have seen only 2 or 3 of these badges (they are quite rare), they had all the same years 1940-1941, it surprises me a bit because I think that it should have been 1940-1944 (the prisonners were not freed before 1944 and the allied invasion as far as I know. Do you have an idea why these dates 1940-1941 ?

Best regards

Bill

Hi Eric,

I was wondering if this badge could be a Luftwaffe unit badge?

It was found in a small group of German medals and badges, and I thought it could be a Luftwaffe (could also be KM) unit badge. The woman seated on the wooden box is holding a shield with the German word "BESTENS" (= the better).

Cheers

Bill

Hi Redeagle,

I agree with both Naxos and Saschaw, this is a fake, not even a chance of being a replacement order.

Note how artistically the plm has been displayed in the photos. On the 1st photo you will see a small ek1 on top, on another photos you have the name of hindenburg who appears, all these are tricks to prevent the potential buyer to concentrate on one thing: the plm itself. Its a bit like this type of snake (can't remember the name) who swings the end of his tail to attrack birds. The birds are attracted they think its a worm and that they are going to have a nice lunch, but the result is that they are the one that get swallowed by the snake. So becareful with photos !

The price for a real plm is difficult to evalue as so few exemples show up in auctions, but I think the cost for a WWI cross is around 15.000 euros (even more if you have a real provenance or an awarding document).

I would really encourage you to buy books and sales catalogues as well as visit military museums where you will be able to see plm. It well help you a lot the day you will decide to buy a plm. Unfortunately there isn't as many books on the plm as on the ek. You should try get a copy of "The History of the Prussian Pour le Merite" by William Hamelman, and Denis Martin, 3 volumes, Verlag Sammlerfreund.

Cheers

Bill

Hallo Bjorn,

Das ist keine Kriegsmarine Abzeichen, sondern ein Abzeichen der Franzosische Marine (Torpilleur l'Epee) circa 1940.

Bis bald

Bill

Many thanks to both of you,

I believe it could be the badge of the Truth Legion but I can't find anything so far on the web to confirm this. The University of Witwatersrand holds a large collection of Union Unity Truth and Truth Legion 1932-1948 documents (including flags, photographs, pamphlets, and so on...). I will try to contact them.

Yours sincerely.

Bill