JasonA

Hi Guys,

I'm trying to identify this officer. While it may be a futile search, there are a couple of interesting points to this grouping.

The first is that the Queen Maria, 2nd class decoration is slot five of the ribbon bar. The officer was also awarded the Order of Queen Maria, 1st class, which he wears around his neck.

I think it's a safe assumption, given the awards, is that he's a Luftwaffe medical officer, if not a doctor. I pulled all Obersteutnant-equivalent officers from the career summaries and narrowed down what I could. I'm still at 100 names.

Anybody recognize the officer, or have any suggestions as to how I might be able to whittle down the list?

Thanks,

Jason

Lew - a fantastic bar! It reminds me of one available a while back on a dealer's site, which went quickly. This may have been another you obtained privately. Regardless, a stellar bar with superb devices!

Well done.

J-

Hi Claudio,

Great new bars! And now, both are named! Superb, thanks for sharing.

Best,

J-

Hi Alan,

What a nice bar. Some great devices on there. Thanks for sharing!

J-

I agree!!!! But I hink these beauties only come at a cost price you must be able to pay.

Greetings,

PP

Hi Poulton,

It depends, I think. I've known many guys who have wonderful groupings that they got for below market value, while others have paid significantly higher in competitive bidding. Sometimes we get great deals, sometimes we overpay. Hopefully it all evens out. This is why I think it's helpful to have as narrow a focus as possible, so we can jump on the pieces that matter to us when they arise.

Best regards,

Jason

Claudio,

Another superb grouping for you. Congratulations. You have superb taste, I must say. Some of the groupings you've shared here have been sublime.

All the best,

Jason

Hi Claudio,

What a superb and interesting thread! I think it's great that you've taken the plunge and started to re-unite this grouping. I don't know what it is with people when named and researched pieces get broken up like this. It seems like there are some who will break them up for various reasons (dealers and collectors), while others are always trying to build them back up. It's a vicious cycle, but I suppose it keeps everybody "in business."

I had a friend in Europe recently tell me that a year or two ago he sold a named grouping of three pieces to a guy in the States. Just recently, one of the ribbon bars was offered to him in a trade deal back in Europe! We don't all have the same attitude when it comes to groupings, unfortunately. But I applaud your efforts in trying to return this grouping to its former glory.

Apologies on the lack of posting responses...we've chatted about this before. I just prefer e-mail - more fun and personal for me.

All the best,

J-

Nothing at all wrong with your bars Jason. Nice authentic Weimar era piece best of luck with your sale.

Best Regards

Alan

Thanks, Alan. The initial flurry of comments inferred the grouping was not authentic - which was unfortunate because conclusions were drawn, or at least suggested, with only a front view of the grouping. It ended up scaring away a buyer.

Once advanced ribbon bar collectors chimed in with their expertise, it all worked out. The grouping is now sold, and I know the new buyer is very excited to add this to his collection.

J-

I would like to highlight the fact that this particular soldier saw front-line service of some sort, given the Bavarian Bravery medal and the Iron Cross, 2nd Class. Then it appears he was very active in veterans associations after the war.

J-

Sorry Jason, I have no good reason to doubt the originality of the bar - just have an opinion on these kind of bars. And to clarify "fantasy" I meant the imagination of the wearer.

I appreciate you clarifying that. You can see how a label of "fantasy carnival bar" without further explanation might inadvertently steer somebody in the wrong direction. Incorrect assumptions can easily be made, so it's important these things are discussed in a thoughtful and productive manner.

Thanks for revisiting the discussion.

Best regards,

Jason

Hi Gentlemen!

I don't see any problems with the above-mentioned bar. really have all sorts of Veteran Associations decorations. They were worn for a relatively short period, because in 1934 most of these medals weren't allowed to be worn on bars, because the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer was issued and should have replaced all these ones. Many of such bars where cannibalized in order to put together new bars with medals that could be worn according the regulation of post 1934. Some bars just remained in draws or cases, carefully stored by their proud owner. Check please my earlier thread on Weimar medal bars: http://gmic.co.uk/in...l +bars +weimar

Just my 2 cents... don't worry Jason your medal and ribbon bar are ok; the fact that also rare 15mm ribbons are on the ribbon bars speaks also for the authenticity of this group.

ciao,

Claudio

Claudio - thank you for taking the time to lend your expertise here. I certainly appreciate it.

Jason

During the Weimar time these unofficial veteran's club decorations were often by WWI front soldiers referred to as "Karnevalsorden" - Hence the term carnival bar.

Thank you for clarifying that. Without that knowledge, labeling a piece a "carnival bar" sounds like one is saying it's not an authentic bar. What it really means is that the bar contains awards for associations that some front-line soldiers turned their nose at.

In this case, we have a solid, authentic grouping. I see no evidence provided to the contrary; karnevalsorden speaks to the some of the awards only, not to the authenticity of the piece.

I think it's fair to make that distinction clear.

Jason

Hello Gents,

I am the current owner of the medal/ribbon bar grouping in question. It is offered for sale at the WAF e-stand. What I'm confused about is why this bar is being evaluated here using only the front view? Additionally, I'm wondering why there's concern about ribbon bars just because they look very clean. And I don't know what is meant by "carnival bar."

I will say that I disagree with the tact of assuming something minty and clean is suspect because of its condition. It would be a more productive discussion to take the bar and analyze its construction, its awards, and its award precedence. Many items can still be found in mint condition, especially ribbon bars. They were worn less frequently than other items, and were often stored in a drawer or boxed away. Soldiers frequently had multiple bars to their name. New bars might be purchased as they gained awards, and the old ones would no longer be worn. The chances of finding an excellent to mint condition ribbon bar is higher than finding other things in the same condition that were worn and used more, or during combat situations.

I am a high condition collector. I have to go through countless dealers and meet countless collectors to find pieces like this. The fact that I have acquired so many is a testament to a dedicated and focused search. I pass on most bars I see because of condition, or more likely, because they're fake or tampered with in some way.

I am a Luftwaffe collector of officer and general rank. When I began seeking longer Luftwaffe bars for my uniforms, they were insanely difficult to source. I began ferreting out longer non branch-specific ribbon bars in the interim. Now that my Luftwaffe ribbon bar collection is healthy, I no longer need these. This is why you see many high condition, long ribbon bars for sale at once.

Jason