Hoss

Thanks Gents

Maybe for these I'll ask the W2 collectors.

Cheers

Chip

Where did this leather shortage thing come from did all the cows take holidays or something?,,,stuck in the Bahamas and couldn't get back I guess.

Eric

Thanks, had never seen that before, although a friend has a Metal (!!!) Tornister made by the BING firm, and it has canvas straps...

Chris

I had one it was one of the first items I purchased here in the States out of shotgun news dated 1914 steel framed instead of wood, cloth straps (with blue stripes?) the eyelets were brass and had leather reinforcing. The painted rust coloured steel frame was inked but hard to make out the material was that lovely ochre denim.

Eric

Gents

I'd appreciate comments on the straps one clamp has three separate numbers on different components so I don't see them as dates 044 045 & 047,,,clips are spring loaded that snap shut, straps are made from hemp..

The shovel is a type used by mortar crews its different better heavier made with an ash wood shaft than latter TR examples.

Cheers

Eric

So, here's some additional trivia. The last US artillery round fired was by the 11th Field Artillery at 1100, 11 Nov 1918. It was a 155mm French Schneider M1917 of Battery E named "Calamity Jane." Interestingly, the 11th FA was formed in the summer of 1917 from a contingent of soldiers transferred from the 6th Field Artillery!

I've searched the internet, but can't seem to find if this gun also was sent back to the US as a trophy. Here is an alleged photo from the internet:

155 howitzer.jpg

A short quasi-official history describing the last shot is here.

Oh NO! now we have "Calamity Jane" LOL!

Eric

Gents

I promise not to say Bridget anymore! that being whatever a lot of on-line and book references may or not have to be adjusted.

Regarding finishes and camouflage that's a complicated and time consuming study, can take decades 'hitting the bricks' and 'whats underneath' from what I can make out so far because Allied isn't really my focus early 75's wore light grey then changed to a medium matt grey very much like German guns. I would be most interested to learn when:

a. The French including official specific dates adopted more than two camouflage colours on the Western Front.

b. Same re: The British Commonwealth and AEF Forces.

Cheers

Eric

Eric, the serial numbers are only useful if we can find documents that authenticate the serial number of the gun that fired the alleged first round.

Gents

The serial I quoted is incorrect 17318 that's the number of another gun at a Memorial. The WP gun is #13579 so we are left with Blimey! well for me: Is the West Point gun 'Bridget'? or just a story made up?

btw the plague should read 'First Artillery Shell fired' if they make that claim imo and I noticed a period image that floats around the net showing a crew with their gun. This picture is shown in a lot of museums even Europe when displaying a piece an original image also resides in the National Archives so I'm told.

Regards

Pain in the bottom Hoss lol!

Eric

Irish

I only knew the supposed name of the US 75 was 'Bridget' #17318 then I saw this post last night, I didnt even know what museum it was at I'm a Imperial German type dude lol!

Eric

Paint looked original to me. Hard to tell from these pics but at least a dozen soldiers scratched their names into the paint of the shield, so if it was done up it must have been before it left France.

There was a Renault 17, right across the aisle (and right next to a lovely Dodge Brothers staff car). See pic below.

I love the image of these guys dragging this 75 half a mile because they were so excited to fight. I guess by 1917 there weren't too many European soldiers going out of there way to get shot at (certainly not the French they borrowed this gun from).

Check your link again 'restored and repainted' btw the tank finish isn't original either, being a healthy skeptic the main reason Pershing probably wanted the gun sent home was to be taken apart? were they any in the States at this time?

Is that the serial number in one of the posted photos?

Eric

Bridget serial is 17318 what number is the gun at West Point?

Eric

This is an original French camo paint scheme from the war. I believe this one has its original paint. I will email the West Point museum to confirm. Here is a link to the 1st Division Museum at Cantigny: http://www.firstdivisionmuseum.org/museum/online/toward_the_front/argonne/artifacts/entry1.aspx. The bottom confirms the French painted their guns this way.

Theirs is repainted to look period but the one at West Point definitely displays period patina.

Hoss, that is the same TYPE of gun... but it is not the same gun... it isn't even there same museum. Not sure what you mean (really that could apply to your whole post... which is vaguely hostile and I can't for the life of me figure out why).

Vaguely Hostile?

Simple answer I didn't appreciate your post what do you mean by 'Europeans' and 'certainly not the French'? for the ..."eventually"... I'm sorry Gents it was stupid and childish a quote from 'Dads Army' !!

Eric

Paint looked original to me. Hard to tell from these pics but at least a dozen soldiers scratched their names into the paint of the shield, so if it was done up it must have been before it left France.

There was a Renault 17, right across the aisle (and right next to a lovely Dodge Brothers staff car). See pic below.

I love the image of these guys dragging this 75 half a mile because they were so excited to fight. I guess by 1917 there weren't too many European soldiers going out of there way to get shot at (certainly not the French they borrowed this gun from).

Really whats original camouflage paint look like? yea they must have been really excited....man. I mean cooool man did they hit anything? us 'Europeans' could not wait for you 'guys' to show up.......eventually.

Eric

ps isn't this the same gun?

You can still see the French unit markings on the side.

That's all been added I'm assuming its 'Bridget' its been 'done up' and the finish isn't original of course.

Regards

Eric

Jock

outside my limited knowledge I'm afraid google google surprisingly not long ago I found for example a site that discusses old German military lanterns.

Cheers

The Imperial steel jobs seem to sell quite well but they have to be in good complete condition and reg.marks make a big difference of course.

Eric

Hi Jock

Are the Imperial and latter ones different? what a pity the mouthpiece is missing otherwise its in nice condition in the good old days you could probably find missing bits at flea markets.

I just sold mine disappointingly I may add, marked 1913 they were and important piece of equipment imo. British vets would tell of the German bugles going off after a bombardment.

Eric

I still think he is wearing red stripe stonegrau, the tunic looks wartime made feldgrau. the right old boy is wearing prewar uniform that tented to match more. Come on old timers who is the General on the right?

Eric

PM sent.

Eric

It mattered more in those days Chris your more educated. a spade looked like a spade etc.

Eric

They don't look like grenades and on a white field I dunno, and I've been reading (which is dangerous lol!).

Eric

Could be a Trench Flapper soldiers that cleaned dugouts/trenches of gas, don't get the grenade thing they look like brooms, I used to own an original specialist grenade sleeve patch sold it to GWM.

Eric

Oh, yes, I just saw it right now. I´m Moderator...

Thank you very much for that promotion!!!!!

:jumping:

Jesus I don't usually get on well with mods I'm done for.

Eric

Yes, Freikorps is right. But the uniform is a regular one from the "Friedensarmee" (worn only in 1919). The badge must be a badge from the Freikorps-era

Interesting info on the tunic.

I just noticed the mg is pointing to the right not left on the badge, there is a US military intelligence report prepared for the war department on German abbreviations from W1 through '43 a 'Sch' could just be for scharfschütze, just a thought its something more simple.

Eric

Thanks Gents

Prussian thats a cool photo, what the heck is that badge! I want one!!!

Eric

Just sharing a photo I bought if Gents could make the name I'd appreciate it.

Eric