ErikMuller

As promised in another topic some of my Dutch police groups:

Attributed to Klaas de Graaf, Constable Amsterdam Municipal Police:

Commemorative Cross 1923 in bronze(with miniature)

Commemorative Cross 1938 in bronze

Commemorative Cross 1948

Some music medal with clasp 'Voorzitter' (chairman)

Group of awards of Romanian officier

sweet

Is the Order of St. Anne damaged? Or was it awarded with only one sword? (because both upper and lower halves of the sword are missing)

Yeah, would love that

A thread is set up soon, so.... If you please to do .....

But this story makes my mouth goes watering

Would like to go there too.... Yet not for the gardens

Thanks for the hints....

Just let me know were you put that thread and I will see

P.S. heb je een pb'tje gestuurd

Hi Erik,

That is indeed a shame! Tell me, do you have any knowledge of what those groups are?? It's a shame they have to hide them away where no one can see them.

Bedankt, Matthijs.

There are a lot of different groups (gallantry, life saving, 'nice' groups), unofficial Dutch medals which the Museum doesn't show because they're not interesting enough to the public.

I myself collect Dutch police and life saving groups, and I know there are a number of those groups in the collection. But none is shown on display.

continued....

Scandinavia: Danish Order of the Elephant; Norwegian Order of St. Olaf collar and grand cross; Finland, several orders and medals; Sweden, the highest classes of all the Swedish orders. Iceland grand cross.

Some Italian, and many Spanish orders. Order of the Golden Fleece. Mexican Order of the Aztec Eagle grand cross, and many South American orders.

German States (sorry, I don?t know much about these): Order of the Prussian crown grand cross breast star; Prussian black eagle order 1st; a Blue Max; A grand cross of an order from I think Wurttemberg with light blue enamel and gold decoration on that enamel (please post the name of this order if you know it please!); Some orders from Bavaria, Baden, Nassau, Lippe, and several other states. Several from Hannover and Saxony.

An unusual ?hunting order? from one of the princedoms in Germany?extremely nice enamelling and it said very rare (less than a hundred).

Poland: Order of the White Eagle 1st class to Queen Wilhelmina from pre-WW2. Virtuti Militari 4th class. A group to a WW2 Polish major with the Royal Air Force, including a DFC and a Dutch DFC (vliegerkruis).

Several orders from Nepal, including one with a Collar and grand cross set in a very large tortoise-shell-shaped case?very impressive.

A collection of medals and orders to a general for the battle of Waterloo.

Communist orders: Soviet Khmelnitsky 2nd class; Hero of Socialist Labour and accompanying Lenin (serial # 361,XXX); An East German grand cross, as well as a Karl Marx order; several communist Romanian orders. What appears to be a Cuban communist order.

A pre-communist Czechoslovakian Order of the Lion 1st class; some Indonesian orders, one in a carved wooden case. Orders from several African nations, as well as the Philippines.

Can?t think of any others for now?rest assured there is more!

Matt.

And just think that you only saw a small part of the collection

Most of the 'interesting' groups are in depot I'm afraid

Although I must admit that a certain museum in Brussels has a lot of interesting stuff in its depots to Common Guy, dump the guns and make place for more medals

Here a beautifull drauwing of a breaststar of the first class of the Order of Saint Louis, out the book "G.H. de Rochement & J. Bischoff, Afbeeldingen der oudere en nieuwere thans bestaande Orden, Amsterdam 1843."

You don't have the complete book in scan do you? I still want to scan my copy, but I'm afraid the binding will break if I do so.

See you next Saturday,

Erik

Hummm

That might be true...

But still, if it never had been awarded...

How can it bear a palm or a lion??

Are the manufacturers allowed to sell official medals??

If so, then I could walk in and buy this cross along with a grandcross or grand chordon???

In Belgium you're not awarded the medal, but only a certificate. You have to buy your medal(s) after that. So there is no such thing as an 'officially' fabricated medal. That's also why there are so many variations of a same medal in Belgium. Each dealer strikes his medals a little bit different.

This guy has some pictures of the Portuguese Red Cross decoration:

Portuguese Red Cross

/Mike

Thanks. It has pictures of the Order and the Medalha de Louvor, but would the commemorative cross be the 60th Anniversary Cross? A little bit strange seeing that Captain Van Vliet received authorisation to wear it not earlier than 1940

Hello Gents,

I was looking through some old Dutch papers and found quite some mentionings about Portugese Red Cross medals awarded to Dutch military officers and men. I found the following

Red Cross Order

1930 Reserve-First Lieutenant Dr. J. Bikke (Infantry)

Cross of Merit

1936 Sergeant M. Goldenberg (Infantry)

Commemorative Cross

1930 Reserve-Medical Officer 2nd Class M. Barkey Wolf (Army Medical Corps)

1940 Reserve-Captain N.W. van Vliet (Artillery)

Medalha de Agradecimento

1935 Reserve-Captain W.J.H.J.M. Keijzer (Infantry)

Medalha de Louvor

1940 Corporal A.H.M. van Banning (Anti-Aircraft Artillery)

I can't find any sources on Portugese Red Cross awards. Does someone have more information as to what awards these could be, how did they look like, were awarded for, were instituted, abolsihed, etc., etc.

Stunning pieces.. where do you find them

Would love one too

And yes, would have to take a look again on your website and read every bit of your information and pictures!!!

Never ask Hendrik were he finds them He just does!

@ Hendrik: good luck hunting next Saturday! Hopefully there's something more interesting than the beer

So... all options are still open.

But didn't you mention that his L" wasn't mentioned in the reference-books??

Could that mean that he hasn't asked for permission to wear them??

That certainly is a possibilty. But then again, the Officer Lists are more often incomplete or totally wrong than correct, so I will just have to wait what C.P. Mulder has to say about Reserve-Major A.A. Schilleman of the 11th Regiment of Infantry.

Cheers,

Erik

But if you know the place...

Nijmegen is quite far away from the Dutch-Belgian borders...

I would doubt if they had there a refugee's camp, I thought that Refugee's camps were relatively close to the borders, so people were helped immediately when they crossed the border...

But.. I'm sure that you will correct me when I'm wrong!!

Or else I will... no camps were close to the border! A company of foreign soldiers might think to liberate their brothers!

Nijmegen indeed had a military prison camp which was 'host' to Belgian, British and French soldiers which 'accidently' crossed the Dutch border. If it also hosted Belgian refugees is unknown to me.

But than again: the medal could have been awarded for that, but since the man was in the reserves it could also be for something else he did during WW1 as a civilian.

From left to right;

Knight Order of the Crown with swords

Knight Leopold II with Palm

Croix d'Guerre "WW1" with 1 bronze lion and 1 bronze palm

Croix d'Guerre "WW1" with bronze palm

Militairy decoration for bravery with palm

Special decoration for ??? * Hendrik can tell more about this one... If he pleases to do so.... *

Decoration for Labor 1st Class

Commemorative medal for the centenary of Belgium.

Nice group! The Article 4 Military Decoration should be placed in front of the Belgian War Cross however, since its a higher decoration than the War Cross.

A shame the seller wouldn't let you have a scan or copy of the photograph. You might give him your mail-address and ask him to give it to the person who bought it.

I tried that once and the other buyer sent me a scan of the rest of the medals I missed. Unfortunately I still haven't percuaded him to sell them to me

@ Hendrik

Don't bother to mail this to Ed, I was ahead of you!

The Dutch Commemorative Medal Peacekeeping Operations has it?s 33rd clasp: ?MULTINATIONALE OPERATIES? (Multionational Operations) instituted by Ministerial Decree of 15 May, 2006. Although the medal was only instituted by Royal Decree of 23 March, 2001, it already has the same number of clasps as the Expedition Cross (see ) which existed from 1869 till 1942 (78 years). And it looks like more are to come...

The Commemorative Medal Peacekeeping Operations is awarded to military personnel which participated in any peacekeeping operation for at least 30 days, without any break, and which have shown good conduct and sense of duty. By Royal Decree of 16 June, 2005, the medal?s criteria were altered to make the award also available to police officers, who also participate in peacekeeping operations (think of the Kosovo Police School).

It is a round medal, 35 millimetres in diameter and made of bronze. On the obverse is a hand, holding an upright sword and coming from a V-shaped cloud. Along the sword is a wrap of olive leaves. The sword is point to a sun, which rays fill up de remaining background.

On the reverse is the Dutch national coat-of-arms.

The ribbon is 27 millimetres wide with the following vertical stripes: white 2 mm, purple 4,5 mm, white 4 mm, red 2 mm., white 2 mm, blue 2 mm, white 4 mm, purple 4,5 mm and white 2 mm.

A bronze clasp can be worn on the ribbon. In case of a second award of the same clasp, a numberal is impressed on it (e.g. the clasp ?SFOR? was awarded for the second time. In this case the clasp has ?2 SFOR? on it, ?3 SFOR?, ?4 SFOR?, etc. The clasp being awarded first is worn at the bottom of the ribbon, second above that, the third above the second, et cetera.

Only four clasps may be worn on the ribbon. In case of a fifth clasp a new medal is worn to the right of the first medal. On the ribbon of this second medal one can also pin four clasps, after which a third medal is worn, et cetera.

The following clasps have been instituted. The first date given is the date of the Decree of the Minister of Defence by which it was instituted, other dates given are dates by which alterations were made to the clasp?s award criteria.

?AMBER FOX?

14 June, 2002

Awarded for participation in NATO-operation ?Amber Fox? within the boundaries of the Macedonian Republic.

?BALKAN LUCHTOPERATIES? (Balkan Air Operations)

12 July, 2001

Awarded for participation air operations in support of ?Joint Forge? and ?Joint Guardian?.

?ECPA?

14 June, 2002

Awarded for participation in the EC-operation ?European Community Police Assistance Project in Albania?.

?ENDURING FREEDOM?

14 June, 2002 ; 6 July, 2005

Awarded for participation in the multinational operation ?Enduring Freedom?, within the area between the Red Sea, the Arabic Sea, the Gulf of Aden, the Oman Gulf and the Persian Gulf, or within the boundaries and air space of the Arabic Peninsular en the Republics of Uzbekistan, Kyrgyz and Afghanistan.

?ESSENTIAL HARVEST?

14 June, 2002

Awarded for participation in the NATO-operation ?Essential Harvest?, within the boundaries of the Macedonian Republic.

?EU OPERATIE CONCORDIA? (EU-operation Concordia)

16 September, 2003

Awarded for participation in the EU-led military operation ?Concordia? in the Macedonian Republic, within Macedonian boundaries since March 2003.

?EU OPERATIES?(EU-operations)

6 July, 2005 ; 15 May, 2006

Awarded for participation in the following EU-operations:

1.the ?EUPOL Kinshasa? within the boundaries and air space of the Democratic Republic of Congo since March 2005;

2. the ?Aceh Monitoring Mission? (AMM), within the boundaries and air space of the Republic of Indonesia, since September 2005;

3. the ?Border Assistance Mission? (EUBAM), within Israeli - Palestinian area and air space since February 2006;

4. the ?European Union Security-Financial Mission? (EUSEC), within the boundaries and air space of the Democratic Republic of Congo since May 2006.

?EUFOR?

6 July, 2005

Awarded for participation in EUFOR, within the boundaries and air space of the former state of Yugoslavia or the adjacent waters of the Adriatic Sea.

?EUMM?

12 July, 2001

Awarded for participation in the European Union Monitor Mission.

?EUPM?

16 September, 2003 ; 6 July, 2005

Awarded for participation in the European Union Police Mission, within the boundaries of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina since September 2002, or within the boundaries of the Republic of Macedonia since December 2003.

?FEDMAC?

12 July, 2001

Awarded for participation in the Federation Mine Action Center.

?ISAF?

14 June, 2002 ; 6 July, 2005

Awarded for participation in the multinational peacekeeping operation International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan, within the boundaries and air space of the Afghan Republic and from the airport of Termez (Uzbekistan).

?KFOR?

12 July, 2001

Awarded for participation in the Kosovo Force.

?LUCHTVERDEDIGING TURKIJE? (Air Defence Turkey)

16 September, 2003

Awarded for participation in:

1. the Dutch military operation ?Tulip Guardian? from 8 February, 2003 till 4 March, 2003;

2. the NATO-operation ?Display Deterrence since 4 March, 2003

Both operations meant the deployment of Patriot Missile Launches in the air defence of Turkey.

?MIF?

12 July, 2001

Awarded for participation in the Multinational Interception Force.

?MINE ACTION CENTER?

16 September, 2003

Awarded for participating in the Mine Action Center, worldwide, since September 2002.

?MULTINATIONALE OPERATIES? (Multinational Operations)

15 May, 2006

Awarded for participation in the following multinational operations:

1. the ?African Union Mission in Sudan? (AMIS), within the boundaries and air space of Sudan, since June 2005;

2. the ?International Military Advisory Team in Sudan? (IMAT), within the boundaries and air space of Sudan, since November 2005.

?NAVO OPERATIES? (NATO Operations)

6 July, 2005

Awarded for participation in the following NATO operations:

1. the ?NATO Training Implementation Mission Iraq? (NTIM-I), within the boundaries and air space of Iraq;

2. the ?NATO Training Mission Iraq? (NTM-I), within in the boundaries and air space of Iraq.

?OVSE ALBANI? (OSCE Albania)

12 July, 2001

Awarded for participating in the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe?s mission in Albania.

?OVSE MACEDONI? (OSCE Macedonia)

14 June, 2002

Awarded for participatin in the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe?s mission within the boundaries of the Macedonian Republic.

?OVSE MOLDAVI? (OSCE Moldavia)

12 July, 2001

Awarded for participating in the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe?s mission in Moldavia.

?OVSE OPERATIES? (OSCE Operations)

6 July, 2005

Awarded for participation in the following Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe missions:

1. the OSCE operation ?Kosovo Police Service School? (KPSS), since September 2001;

2. the OSCE Training Mission in Serbia and Montenegro since 2003.

?SFOR?

12 July, 2001

Awarded for participation in the Stabilisation Force.

?SFOR/EUFOR?

6 July, 2005

Awarded for participation in the NATO-mission Stabilisation Force during the time of the transfer from SFOR to the European-operation EUFOR on 2 December 2004, within the boundaries and air space of the former Republic of Yugoslavia and the adjecent Adriatic Sea.

?STABILISATION FORCE IRAK? (Stabilisation Force Iraq)

16 September, 2003

Awarded for participation in the international Stablisation Force within the boundaries and air space of Iraq and the Arabic Peninsular since 25 June, 2003.

?UNFICYP?

12 July, 2001

For participation in the United Nations Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus.

?UNPTF?

12 July, 2001

For participation in the United Nations Police Task Force.

?UNMEE-DJIBOUTI?

12 July, 2001

For participation in the United Nations Mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea and Djibouti.

?UNMIBH?

12 July, 2001

For participation in the United Nations Mission in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

?UNMIL?

6 July, 2005

For participation in the United Nations Mission in Liberia, within the boundaries and air space of Liberia and its adjacent waters.

?UNTSO?

12 July, 2001

For participation in the United Nations Truce Supervision Organisation.

?VN OPERATIES? (UN Operations)

6 July, 2005

For participation in the following UN-operations:

1. the ?Op?ration des Nations Unies au Burundi? (ONUB), within the boundaries and air space of the Republic Burundi.

2. the United Nations Advanced Mission in Sudan (UNAMIS), within the boundaries and air space of the Republic of Sudan.

3. the United Nations World Food Program (UNWFP), within the boundaries and air space of Iraq and on the airport of Amman (Jordan).

4. the ?Mission de l?Organisation des Nations Unies en R?publique d?mocratique du Congo? (MONUC), within the boundaries and airspace of the Peoples Republic of Congo.

5. the United Nation Mission in Sudan (UNMIS), within the boundaries and air space of the Republic of Sudan.

?WEU MAPE?

12 July, 2001

Awarded for participation in the West-European Union Multinational Advisory Police Element.

... its the medal bar of prinz Alfons of Bavaria.

regards

MichaW

Is it in your collection?

What are the last two medals?

Hello,

I will show you some nice spanish medals. Have anybody something else?

regards

Micha

I would love to see the complete group! Is it a Dutch or German group (looking at the ribbon and how the medals are put on top of it)

(and sorry, nothing Spanish in my collection)

Jacky,

Your grandfather would only be eligble for the award of the OHK when he was serving with a unit that actually saw combat. Otherwise he would have been able to receive the Mobilisation War Cross. Minimum requirement (not in the Royal Decree) was a number of months that hat to be served.

From 1952 (1954?) till 1994 the awards of WW2-commemorative medals was closed. After 1994 it was possible to put in requests again. But one has to prove himself worthy of the award. The Department of Defence, nore the Chancellery will do any research into the ex-serviceman's records.

Cheers,

Erik

Hello Erik,

Welcome ! Great to see you joined up here !!!

Not even a specimen or drawing of it ever made ?

Cheers,

Hendrik

Not that I know of anyways! The record on the design of the War Commemorative Cross is placed in the Merchant Navy archive at the National Archive at The Hague. It only contains the sketch of the Cross itself and none of the clasps.

Are there certificate collectors? for me the documents with the clasps on them would be the more interessting thing to collect (I am a "paper guy" :-)

I know of only one certificate collector in the Netherlands, but of course most of us "metal" collectors won't leave a nice certificate in a merchants hand when it happens to cross our pad.

I have several OHK-documents myself, but all of them (except the temporary certificate shown above) are to merchant navy personnel.

It looks like the real deal to me. A bit damaged, but certainly worth more than the 150 euro's the last person is bidding on it

An interesting medal!

A question as to value. Does the amount of people who got a specific bar effect the value?

I assume there are many more Europe bars than Java ones... but maybe it is just as easy to order a Java bar than a Europe bar, giving them the same value?

All the best

Chris

Dear Chris,

Whatever you pay for a War Commemorative Cross these days is to much anyways. When I started collecting 15 years ago you could buy them for like 10/20 guilders (5-10 euro's). Nowadays you easily pay 40-75 euro's. But that aside...

The rarest clasp to the War Commemorative Cross is the "OORLOGSDIENST-VISSERIJ" (War Fishing Service) since only a handfull of Dutch fishing boats served at Allied side to keep the stumaches of the Allied Forces filled. And yes, that is generally a more expensive clasp to buy.

Other clasps that can be expensive are the "OORLOGSVLUCHTEN 1940-1945" (because its 'hot') and the "NORMANDI? 1944" and "ARNHEM-NIJMEGEN-WALCHEREN 1944" clasp. Also because they're wanted, not because they are so rare. The first clasp was awared to Dutch airmen serving with either the R.A.F., R.A.A.F. or F.A.A., but also to Dutch civil air line airmen who flew during the war. The last two clasps were merely awarded to the Dutch Prinsess Irene Brigade.

One particular clasp of interest: "KRIJG TE LAND 1940-1945", was also awarded to the members of the French S.A.S. unit (the 2nd and 3rd Regiment Chasseurs Parachutistes). They received a total of 467 of these crosses. Those who were decorated with a Dutch gallantry award did not receive the War Commemorative Cross.

This is also one of the most found clasps, since it was awarded to all who endured ground combat during the years 1940-1945, including to members of the underground resistance.

The story that the War Commemorative Cross (with clasp "NIJMEGEN, etc.") also was awarded to U.S. forces for the liberation of the Netherlands is total bullshit. It never was. The U.S. Units that helped liberating the Netherlands were awarded the so-called Orange Lanyard (which was awarded to the standards of the units and to all individual members of those units) and in one case (the U.S. 82nd Airborne Division) the standard (and the standard only!) was decorated with the 4th class knights cross of the Military Order of William.

Some individual members, most of the S.O.E. were awarded the Resistance Commemorative Cross in the early 1980's because of their involvement in covert operations in the Netherlands during the war and for training Dutch agents.

Actually, to get back on your question, it seems that it's easier to get your hands on naval clasps (like the one for the Java Sea) than on European mainland clasps. Don't forget: The Dutch navy was mainly stationed in the Indian Archipel! And the clasp "JAVAZEE 1941-1942" is not only for the famous battle, which occured there in the night of 27/28 February, 1942. But also for the period in front of that. It was thus awarded to a lot of merchant navy personnel. The only European mainland clasp found often is the clasp "NEDERLAND MEI 1940". The most frequently found clasp is "OORLOGSDIENST KOOPVAARDIJ 1940-1945" (Merchant Navy War Service 1940-1945)

Cheers,

Erik

Hendrik's award document was awarded by the DE MINISTER VAN VERKEER EN WATERSTAAT (Secretary of State for Traffic and Water Control). There are also documents by the DE MINISTER OF OORLOG (State Secretary for War), DE MINISTER VAN OVERZEESE GEBIEDSDELEN (State Secretary for the Colonies) and the DE MINISTER VAN MARINE (State Secretary for the Navy).

Also there's a strange difference amongst documents awarded. Hendrik's award document has the place and date of birth of the recipient. While I found documents - from other dates - which only state the name and service number of the recipient.

The temporary ribbon, which was originally awarded till 1948. All crosses were actually only awarded after 1948!

The ribbon was, I think, probably manufactured by Spinks. The ribbon's colours are a lot darker than the final Dutch design.

The temporary award document, awarded till 1948