ErikMuller

Were the foreign recipients are concerned, I have a shorter entry, not describing the other awards and just the HGL.

If any of you gents need info on Dutch recipients just send me an e-mail with the names you have and around which date I have to look. I will be happy to contribute any biographical material I can find

E-mail is info @ onderscheidingen.nl (separated to keep those nasty spam bots out).

Cheers,

Erik

Heck, for YOU-- personally delivered and custom autographed on the spot!!!

Already PM'ed you to, but I'm also interested in a copy of each :-)

I just love big lists of names :-)

Thanks, I'm glad to help.

The 2nd neck cross looks more like the Hungarian St. Stephan order - are you sure there are swords? Think this order hadn't any swords at all ...

And hey, he isn't wearing ANYTHING with swords, why should the neck badge have?

This cross looks more like the cross in the picture. However, I still think there are swords visible between the upper arm and what appears to be a crown.

The Dutch Nobility Book (Nederland's Adelsbook) of 1918 only gives him as treasurer of the Commendery Netherlands of the Order of Saint John. Unfortunately none of his decorations are mentioned. Neither in his obituary in the Het Vaderland of 25 november 1939.

Hi Eric,

I would like to help you on the second commander cross.

It's the Bavarian Militar verdienst order 2nd class with swertern & Kr?ne.

Kind regards,

Jacky

That was my first thought to, but:

- the swords on the BMVO are on top of the upper arm, not between the arm and the crown

- the medalion is to big to be the BMVO

And besides, there are only two Dutch recipients of the BMVO and Baron Taets van Amerongen isn't one of them

In Jerusalem erhielten am 8. April 1910 folgende Personen das ?lbergkreuz:

Dr. Jonkheer van Daehne, Herr van Varick, Graf von Rechtern-Limpurg, Baron Taets von Amerongen

This is the complete list as it has been published in OMM 91. My apologize for not translating their titles and jobs, but there are many which are rather strange ...

Looks like four Dutch recipients, amongst which a Baron Taets van Amerongen. Sweet!

Thanks Saschaw!

#3-- quite incredibly -- is the 1911+ ?lberg Kreuz for assistance to the German hospital (still there) on the Mount of Olives in the Holy Land!

WOW!

Knowing the name I found the following on www.militaria-fundforum.de:

"Gestiftet anl?sslich der Einweihungsfeier des Geb?udes der Auguste Victoria-Stiftung auf dem ?lberg bei Jerusalem im Jahre 1910. Insgesamt 181 Verleihungen (am 8. April 81 mal in Jerusalem, am 9. April, dem Tag der Einweihung 77 mal und am 10. April 7 mal, au?erdem in Deutschland weitere 16 mal.

Das waren sowohl Zivilisten als auch Milit?rs. Auf dem Markt befinden sich zahlreiche F?lschungen, also Obacht!

Ich besitzen leider nur eine Miniatur ...

Im OMM 91 befindet sich ein sehr guter Artikel zur Geschichte des Kreuzes"

Does anyone has this OMM91? And/Or, if not in this source, the list of the 181 recipients?

From CarstenZeige's catalog

Lovely, never saw this award before!

#3-- quite incredibly -- is the 1911+ ?lberg Kreuz for assistance to the German hospital (still there) on the Mount of Olives in the Holy Land!

WOW!

Rick, Thanks!

You don't happen to have an image of that cross?

I was hoping to identify the recipient by his medals.

The only person on the ambulance who was a member of a nobel family was W.H. Baron Taets van Amerongen van Woudenberg, treasurer of the ambulance. He was no doctor, so he can't be wearing the uniform of a captain.

Gentlemen,

I need some help ID'ing some decorations from an unfortunately poor photograph.

This photograph was taken at the farewell party of the Netherlands Red Cross ambulance from Gleiwitz on 7 March, 1918. The captain on the right wears collar tabs of the Johanniter Order. He is shown more in detail below:

His medals are shown in detail here:

So far I've ID'ed the following medals:

Neck:

1. Knight of Honor, Order of Saint John, Baley of Brandenburg (also steckkreuz)

2. unidentified

Spange:

1. Cross of Merit of the Netherlands Red Cross

2. Medal of the German Red Cross 2nd class

3. unidentified

4. Medal of the German Red Cross 3rd class

Could anyone shed any light on the two unidentified awards? My best guess are that they are German.

Erik M?ller

Hi Eric,

Nice pictures!!!

I think that the second one from left isn't a civic decoration, it appears to have a thick darker center stripe which could be the Leopold II medal.... But then.. It's in the wrong place.....

However I really think that it's not a civic decoration based on it's ribbon.

Kind regards,

Jacky

On the actual picture it's clear that it's a Civic Decoration and certainly not a medal of the Order of Leopold II. The ribbon is not really clear though. The dark stripe in the center could also be a fold.

Trust you to come up with a picture like this

I just bought a house, so can't afford the real medals anymore

Here's another one.

This civil servant is wearin both the cross and the medal. As a nice attachment he added a crown to his Administration Long Service Medal.

Thanks Erik, any link to his book?

Not yet, as soon as it's published I guess Guy will post something on it! (@ Guy?)

Pat? and which book?

Captain-Commandant (ret'd) Pat van Hoorebeke of the Belgian Army Museum is about to publish his book on the Belgian Orders and its suppliers. Should have been finished last October, however...

He's knows quite a lot about boxes, maker's marks, types, etc.

I had been waiting for the right moment to post this picture.

It shows four Civic Decorations:

The Civic Cross for Long Service in the Fire Department and Home Guards (watch the suspension!)

Unknown Civic Decoration, I guess the Civic Decoration for acts of Courage and Devotion with the Fire Department or Home Guard

Civic Decoration for Acts of Courage, Devotion and Humanity x2

Any of you guys have an idea on the service and if my guesses for these Civic Decorations are correct?

In fact, it wouldn't do any harm if anyone could give some tips on what to watch out for in order to properly date the various "types" of this order - any hints as to how to recognize specific maker's differences would also be welcome. Every scrap of information in that respect would be useful !

If Pat would read this, he would probably just say: "Just wait, my book is forthcoming!"

At the above mentioned website, which I surely have enjoyed!!, I found also this picture....

Isn't the upper one the grandcross of the military order of William

the other one is really over flashed but could one perhaps shed a light ( ) to it's identy??

Kind regards,

Jacky

My guess: King William III...

I cropped down the image to make it smaller. The outer rim of this CDV wasn't really interesting actually, since there was no stamp of the photographer.

The person on this picture is Jean Henri Idesbad le Cocq d'Armandville.

He was awarded the Knight 4th class of the Military Order of Willem by Royal Decree of 28 September 1899 No. 43 as a First Lieutenant of Infantry of the Royal Netherlands Indies Army, for: "distinguished himself during the war actions at the North- and East Coast of Atchin during the period from 1 June till 25 October 1898."

He was born in Maastricht on 25 January 1879. He followed his military training at the Royal Military Academy in Breda and was appointed Second Lieutenant of Infantry on 24 July 1893. On 23 October 1893 he transfered to the Royal Netherlands Indies Army and on 23 March 1907 was promoted to First Lieutenant. In 1900 he transfered to the Marechaussee. Promotions followed: Captain (16 June 1906), Major (9 March 1916), Lieutenant-Colonel (3 February 1919), Colonel (26 August 1922), Major-General (1924) until he retired in 1926.

He taught at the Higher War College from 1902 to 1905. From 1909 till 1910 he was civil and military commander of Malili (Celebes). Afterwards he lead an expedition through Southern New-Guinea. In 1911 he transfered from the Marechaussee to the General Staff. From 1916-1918 he served in the Standing Army in the Netherlands and later became Regional Military Commander in the Southern- and Eastern Department of Borneo. As a Major-General he was head of the 2nd Department of the Ministry of War. He died in February, 1942

Besides the Military Order of William he received the following decorations:

Knight in the Order of the Netherlands Lion (1926)

Expedition Cross with the clasps 'Atchin 1896-1900', 'Atchin 1901-1905' and 'South-Celebes 1905-1908'

Officer's Long Service Cross with numberal 'XXV'

Mobilisation Cross 1914-1918

Commander in the Order of the Crown of Belgium

Knight of the Legion of Honor of France (1931)

Sources:

"De Militaire Willemsorde 1815-1940", by G.C.E. K?ffler, p. 161

"Moed Beleid Trouw", 1940, without author, p. 418

"De Nederlandsche Ridderorden 1900-1936", by W. Baron Snouckaert van Schauburg and others, p. 86-87

"Naam- en Ranglijst der Officieren van het Nederlandsche Leger en van dat in Nederlandsch-Oost-Indi?, alsmede van de Landmacht in West-Indi?", 1900, without author, p. 340

"Naam- en Ranglijst der Officieren van het Nederlandsche Leger en van dat in Nederlandsch-Indi?", 1923, without author, p. 623 & 628

Bonjour,

Adding a newcomer in my collection - this CDV (late 1870s) is identified in the back as "Jonkheer van Vessem".

I found some online reference to a "Jonkheer H.A.L. van Wessem", 1814-1891, who was "woonachtig op Bijdorp en voormalig ritmeester, ordonnansofficier van koning Willem 111 en intendant van de koninklijke paleizen te Amsterdam en Den Haag"

- which I take means "originating from Bijdorp, a former Captain, Ordonnance Officer of king Willem III, and intendant of the royal palaces in Amsterdam and The Hague".

Can anyone help in identifying them ?

My best guess so far (thanks for confirming !) :

Salutations,

J?r?me

J?r?me,

The correct spelling of his name is: Henricus Alexander Leopold van Vessem. He was born in Son on 28 November 1814, made Jonkheer (Baronet) by Royal Decree of 19 March 1886, No. 13, and died in Rijsenburg (House Bijdorp) on 25 April 1891.

His duties with the royal family included: adjunct-intendant of the Royal Palaces, sub-intendant of the Palace of Amsterdam, intendant of the Palace of The Hague and of the House Du Bois (12 May 1878).

The first Order of the upper row is the Knight 5th class of the House Order of the Golden Lion of Nassau and NOT the Order of the Netherlands Lion. He was awarded this by Royal Decree of 15 May 1876. On 23 January 1888 he was promoted to a Knight 2nd class in this Order.

He was awarded the Knight's cross of the Order of the Oaken Crown by Royal Decree of 9 October 1854.

Sources:

"Nederland's Adelsboek", 1953, p. 95

"Onderscheidingen van de Koning-Groothertog, De Orde van de Eikenkroon 1841-1890", by C.P. Mulder and P.A. Christiaans, p. 525

"Een select gezelschap en een vergeten onderscheiding, Ridders in de Orde van de Gouden Leeuw van Nassau", by C.P. Mulder and P.A. Christiaans, p. 241 & 256

Where could we find a list of the recipients of the Dutch Crown Order? Would it be at the Huisarchief? or at the Kanselarij der Nederlandse Orden?

That would be the House Archives of the Royal Family, but I won't give you much change of getting any information from them. They usually tend to keep award files closed for 50 years and since the Crown Order was instituted in 1969 I don't think any records will be made public til 2019.

Hello gents,

Can anyone help me with what awards were made to the different Red Cross ambulances during the Balkan Wars?

I have the awards to two of the four Dutch ambulances and I want to make a comparison.

The Dutch ambulances got:

Greece:

Order of the Redeemer

- Commander (1)

- Officer (3)

- Knight (2)

Medal of the Greco-Turkish War 1912-1913 with ribbon for nursing staff (entire personnel)

Medal of the Hellenic Red Cross (female nursing personnel only)

Turkey

Order of Medjidjie:

- Grand Officer (1)

- Commander (2)

- Knight (4)

Order of Sjerakat

- Grand Officer (2)

Medal of Liakat in silver (10)

Unfortunately I don't have any information concerning the Serbian and Bulgarian awards to the Dutch ambulances. I also don't know how much silver and bronze medals of the Turkish Red Crescent Society have been awarded.

If anyone can help with more info, it would be appreciated.

Dear Erik

We will in february on that beautifull order I like it very mutch. But I still like the french name of the order

Guy

I'm not sure if I will attend in February, since I will be getting the keys of my new house around that time, but drink on it we will in due future!

Now back on topic: does anyone have a picture of the Crown Order? I only have a pic of the associated Medal of Honor in silver.

See her a beautifull drawing of the order of the Belgian Lion out the book of A. Wahlen from 1844.

Not even going to comment on that...

Oops

I did not know the Order of the Dutch Lion was instituted for the southern part of the Koninkrijk only? Why did it not become a belgian order with a namechange lateron?

David

It was not created for Belgium only. It was created as a general order of merit to the Netherlands. The capitol of the country was in Brussels then, so that's why most of the awards in the early days were in the area of Belgium.

Erik

H. Dijkstra

Inspecteur van de Politie 1e klas te Amsterdam

Het Vaderland woensdag 22 Juni 1938

Do you have more info on this man?

At the moment, all the information I have is:

Hendrik Dijkstra

Born Utrecht, 21 January 1897.

Died 26 February 1965.

1-5-1919 Temporary Officer Cadet (Surnumerair) Amsterdam Police

Listed in 1919 as a Reserve 1st Lieutenant with the 1st Field Artillery Regiment

Known decorations:

Knight in the Order of Orange-Nassau

Mobilisation Commemorative Cross 1914-1918

Commemorative Cross 1923 in bronze (Amsterdam Police)

Commemorative Cross 1938 in silver (Amsterdam Police)

Officer in the Order of the Black Star of Benin

The master has spoken again....

Master? Hmmm... much to learn yet... consider me a bachelor

But I don't like the phrase about the beauty of the Netherlands Lion......

I never said it wasn't beautiful... I meant to say it is less painful to show up in a foreign country with the lesser of two orders of that country, than showing up with the GC-set of a former colony of that country.