Mitya Ivanov

The ring on the upper ray of the star... No wonder Alexandra failed attaching it:)

I've seen it, thanks. The problem I've never seen another Aftab-star with a blow-up (though true: I've never seen before any Aftab-badge with pendants either, and I cannot imagine any other way for Alexandra to get this thin-ribbon bow except from the set of insignias given to her by the Shah).

"...because the star came with its own bow..."

Never knew before, James! Can we see somewhere Aftab-star with a bow? Or read somewhere about a bow had been added to the stars of Aftab? Or if it is just your guess? It is great anyway:)

No-no-nо, Markus! I'm not a great scholar (you are too kind, thanks) and Mary and George visited India in Nov. 1905 - March 1906 and not in 1904. Her memory failed to remember the year:)

I've asked one of my friends to help us and to read day-month on this firnan - but there are none, he says:( Just the year 1323.

Dear Markus, one more question - if this image of the Aftab with sash over firman really signed in the book as Victoria's? If yes - then it's a kind of mistake (?).

Dear Markus, thank you for this gorgeous scans!

The problem is the first one shows the Order with a firman issued NOT for Victoria: it is dated 1323, i.e.1905.

So the paper (and the badge shown?) are not of Victoria but of Princess (future Queen) Mary - they say (in Wiki) she recieved her Aftab on June 16, 1905.

Do we know who was the holder of the star and badge on Babar's image?

Dear Markus, thanks for satisfying of my annoyance about Queen Alexandra's close-up: oops and wow:) Have none ideas abot this at all.

Dear James, you wrote:

"A small picture of the Queen wearing all the insignia appears on p 168. She is definitely wearing a circular star"

- so it seemed to me that your hyperlink to qajar.wordpress-site was an answer to my question if there are really any photo of Victoria with the star in the book - and what is this photo. You see, we (me and friends here) have never seen Victoria in any Persian circular star (that's why I shared my own opinion that the Aftab-star is an innovation added later - after the bestowal of the first Aftab-insignias in 1873). As for Elena of Montenegro (i.e. Italy:) - thanks for posting!

Nope. Never:)

Oh, thanks, James! I could never imagine the small brooch under the Royal Portrait (on Victoria's neck) to be a star of Aftab. And if it is a right place for a star? Funny.

Eh... It's a pity I have no access to this book. I know only two photos of Victoria in Persian decorations but they doesn't show any star. I've nothing to do but to believe Mr. Patterson's quotations from Victoria's diary.

I don't this this photo on p.168 is one of these shots we discussed here?

Yeah, I've noticed some more mistakes and strange things in the book. The only thing I know for sure (not from the book) is the Order of Aftab was not founded in Russian St.Pete:)

Have you ever seen Victoria's Aftab star, friend?

We knew it long BEFORE, my dear friend, but my SPECIAL thanks to you for all these new proofs.

"Go figure!" - Grrrrrrrrrrrrr(oaning:)

Oh, I mean of those guys on the "minus one" photo posted by Nick - with ambassador to Russia in the center of a group. You are SO fast, Nick!:)

One of these guys could happen to be Empress Farah's grandfother:)

She writes: For the text of this decree see:

Iran, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 1916. - Salmanah-i vizarat-i umur-i kharijah. Tehran: Baradaran-i Baqirzadah. Page 246.

So it seems that she'd read it herself.

Dear Markus, since you've posted here a close-up of Queen Alexandra breast badge of the Aftab - maybe you have a close-up of a sash-badge from this photo too?

Dear James, I've never heard Queen Victoria to receive any full-circle star of the Aftab! (It seems to me that the star was added to insignias of this Order a little bit later - not in 1873. Shah never mentioned the star of Aftab in his diary - just the badge). Is it possible to learn from somewhere how does it looks like - I mean, Queen Victoria's star?

Yes, Victoria was the only one who received both a new Order of Aftab and the Royal Portrait during this Eiropean trip of the Shah. The English translation of Shah's memoirs name this badge as an "Order of My Own Portrait". BTW (we all remember:) the ribband across Victoria's shoulder is of the Order of Aftab. I'd like to know who made this photoset of Victoria in Persian decorations (there are several photos of the Queen in these insignias). I have no any proofs, but I believe it could be Shah himself - he was a great fan of photography:)

President elections? Lough over lol:)

I've copypasted this japanese 'thank you' from the Internet:)

Oh! Sure! What a stupe am I:)

おかげで

'Babar's' star with 360-rays Sun has no green rays.

This version has: http://www.najafcoins.com/Images/o1910.jpg

And this one - too:

Funny:)

"The 360 degrees sun rays... fantastic"

It's rare, yes. I don't believe this is some special grade, I'm sure this is just [one of] the earliest versions of this order - maybe the earliest one. NB the Sun here (on Hermann Historica's and Babar's images) still has face - like Qajarian LS-emblem. The later Homayouns received ground under the lion but the Sun lost its face.

"Maybe Mitya will help us with translation"

Nick my pal! I don't read neither Persian nor Arab or Pashto etc.etc.

And my English is also bad - as you know.

"As for Cossack... They wore usual cassack uniform... Nothing special and fancy..."

Oh, I've just meant it was different from any other uniform in Persian Army. Though yes, it was quite usual for cossacks.

"But if this special badge/cockade indeed was special military badge/cockade, than why some military top-brass Persians got it and the others didn't?"

THAT is exactly what I fail to realize.

"And I don't observe (on the photos) any clear pattern "two lions with grenade = top-brass military"

Neither do I

"Banner... Well, in the center we have national coat of arms"

Sorry for my puritanic rigorism, dear friend - not a COA in fact, but a state emblem.

"and on the every (?) corner "two lions with "grenade"". Maybe they thought "one big sun in the center is enough"? From heraldic point of view

It is not a heraldic point of view:)

Everything is quite clear here, you see: the state emblem represents the main role of Shahanshah as a head of state.

And 'military' lions (on every corner, yes) stand for Shahanshah's function as a Chief Commander of Iranian Armed Forces.

BTW on the other side of this banner there are LS-emblems in every corner (hope you/ve seen it in my article).

"P.S. Nice looking botton by the way"

bOtton?

Oh my Freud:)