chuck

Chris, 

   Not an expert on Turkish medals, but from what i have read original award pieces were painted, and had no enamel. 

Ottoman Empire, Turkish War Medal (Gallipoli Star), 1915, wartime issu – BuyMilitaryMedals.com

Regards, 

Chuck 

On 30/07/2011 at 11:45, Eric Stahlhut said:

very happy to have had this one fall into my lap!

 

Do you know who the maker of the prinzen size cross was and in what period. i have seen the same piece for sale and would like to know more.

chuck 

It's a moot point as the wound badge is no longer available. However, i did find a nice example of 3 clam shell backs on WW 11 General Assault Badges(orignal article link). Not a collector that period, but it is a good example. Their is a definite difference in the overall appearance of the 3 clam shells on the attached picture in my opinion as stated below. 

General Assault Badge Screwback Clamshell – BACUFFZ

My Opinion of the three clamshells from left to right:

The Schauerte-Hohenfeld seem to have a flat rim unlike the others two makers.

The Deumer seem to have fairly tight ridges as compared to the other two makes.

The Alois Rettenmaier seems to have fairly wide ridges on the clamshell as compared to the other two makers.

P.S. Still have some reservation due to the lack of defined edges unlike many of the stamped badges have on  the back of the wound badge. 

Regards,

Chuck 

Very nice...

On 24/08/2021 at 22:19, Eric Stahlhut said:

for example it was used by Deumer, Alois Rettenmaier, and Schauerte & Hoehfeld on wound badges

Eric, 

  Do you have any examples of wound badges with clamshell back from either company?

Regards,

Chuck

Hi Eric

  I referred to the wound badge as a Deumer because that is what the seller listed. I have seen WW II badges with various clamshell backings as you have listed.  Considering what you have written, i would draw the conclusion that this is a period piece from the 30's, or 40's and not a current forgery.

Thank you for comments,

Chuck 

I've seen 1st Class Iron Cross made in the 30's by Deumer with the same type of clamshell backing. So i assume this would be the same period, and definitely not an award piece from 1918. As their was a period in the 30's (1933-1936) were you could apply for wound badges, and medals were all the rage luxury piece were probably being sold.  

So to clarify my question.  I would ask the question is this piece an origina, or a fake.

thanks, 

chuck 

I have never owned a Deumer wound badge and cannot find any good images for comparison. I have some concerns on the lack of details on the reverse of the badge. 

Any opinions on this Deumer Wound Badge i am considering on purchasing?

Thanks in advance

Chuck

Really great and historic group. Who is the maker of the iron cross, Godet or one of the other official makers? I wonder what a general would give to another general?

49 minutes ago, Deutschritter said:

Chuck, thanks for the information on Paul Bäumer, Julius Buckler, Otto Könnecke, Fritz Rumey und Karl Thom ... do you have more decortions for Thom? Maybe promotion dates? Was he reactivated in WW II? Thanks!

Fortunately, Their is a biography of Karl Thom that covers some award and promotion dates.

Order of the Pour Le Merite ; November 1 1918

Royal Hohenzollern House Order, Member's Cross with Swords ; August 7 1918

Golden Military Merit Cross ; October 11 1917

Iron Cross 1st, for escape from captivity after a forced landing du to mechanical issues (sometime between OCT1916-APR1917)

Iron Cross 2nd Class, after being wound in November 1914

Pilot's Badge, Army assigned fliegertruppe in June 1915

Wound Badge in Silver ; date ??

Unteroffizier, Promoted after being wounded in November 1914

Vizefeldwebel, Promoted July 24 1916

Leutnant, Promoted August 29 1918 

Regards,

Chuck

According to research by Neal O'Conner. The number of the PLM and GMMC could not be very much if you consider how late in the war the Prussian chose to start awarding GMMC. The 1st award of the GMMC was not made until October 15 1916, and the 2nd on June 14 1917 with 53 awards being made in  1917. The flood gate opened in 1918 with 1,1715 crosses being award until the last award on November 8 1918. Considering that fact you would have had to be an NCO and promoted to officer in 1918. That would certainly lessen the opportunity.

Neal O'Conner does list 5 aviation officers who won both the PLM and GMMC.

Paul Baumer

Julius Buckler

Otto Jonnecke

Fritz Rumey

Karl Thom

Regards, 

Chuck

2nd from the right is the Anhalt, House Order of Albert the Bear.

chuck 

6 hours ago, Beau Newman said:

The only one I know of was written by William Hamelman in the '90's.  It's pretty basic and the photos aren't that great but, it does cover WWI, WWII and the 1957 versions.  I'm pretty sure it's out of print and used copies can be hard to find.

Beau, 

 I have seen the book on amazon(?), and the review was poor. I guess it is a small niche collectable area that has not been written. 

Thanks, 

Chuck

Very nice and distinctive reverse  on the badge.

Regards, 

Chuck 

On a complete separate note does anyone know of a good book on WW1 wound badges?

Gilded Bronze medal were produced at the end of the war.

The Awards of Saxon Gold Military St.Henry Medal Recipient Vizefeldwebel Jakob Krems (medalnet.net)

The Gold Military St. Henry Medal awarded to Jakob Krems is shown below.  It was struck from bronze and gilded.  The die-maker’s initials “F.U.” (Karl Christian Friedrich Ulbricht) are present at the neck of the bust of Friedrich August.  There is a circular punch-mark on the rim of the medal at approximately 3 o’ clock (see Figure 15).  This punch-mark denotes that this is an original mint-struck and officially awarded bronze-gilt medal.  The slightly dark discoloration seen at the top of the medal, where the suspension ring was soldered to the top of the medal, was caused by oxidation of the solder over time, which has shown through the gilding.  The medal weighs 18.1g without the ribbon.  This medal is housed in the red case in which it was awarded.  There is gold blocking on the lid with crossed swords and the inscription “St. Heinrichs=Med./in Gold”.  A piece of original ribbon for this medal was found in the case.

In 1914, there were 110 medals struck in gold by the Saxon Royal Mint.  In 1915, there 15 medals struck in gold.  In 1917, there were 50 medals struck in gilded bronze.  In 1918, there were 60 medals struck in gilded bronze.  Thus, during the World War, there were total of 125 medals struck in gold, and 110 struck in gilded-bronze.

Of the medals struck,  97 of the gold medals were awarded from 1914 until the end of 1917, and 53 of the gilded bronze medal were awarded from the end of 1917 through 1918.

Therefore, the gilded-bronze version of this medal, although not as aesthetically pleasing, nor as intrinsically valuable as the gold version of this medal, is a numismatic rarity.

Hi Beery,

can you show the reverse of the prince size wound badge, or is that a miniature badge?

chuck 

All, 

This is only my fourth wound badge in my collection and am trying to focus on some of the more scares badges. I've also picked up a Zinc and 2 DRGM Badges. i would like to find a Deumer or schickle badge to next add to my collection.

Thank you for the comments

Chuck

Gentlemen, 

After a rather long wait on DHL I finally received my late Christmas present. After reviewing several threads on the GMIC site i strongly believe this to be a Meybauer badge. I wold greatly appreciate any opinions on the badge and if i am correct on the identification. I've included the two posts that I've used for identification.

Thank you very much,

Chuck

Great bar the 1st Class BMVK is very rare (150-160 awards), and greatly faked on a lot of web sites.

Regards

Chuck

Hi Eric,

Sorry their doe snot appear to be a link in you reply. 

Chuck

Really nice cross from Godet. I've never seen any Iron Cross stamped with the crown and moon stamp.  I though that was something that jeweler's had stopped using during the First World War with so many crosses being produced and awarded.

chuck 

Really amazing that Baden was so frugal as to not provide a nice case.

chuck 

Nice cross, Does anyone know if Godet an award cross or a second piece?

v/r

chuck 

Hi Alex,

Here are two sites for the prussian officers cross and the enlisted cross.

Antique Photos - Long Service Award for Officers (antique-photos.com)

Dienstauszeichnung 1.Klasse 1913 für 15 Jahre (ehrenzeichen-orden.de)

To add to the confusion, the confusion the hessian and prussian 15 year cross are very similar. 

Dienstauszeichnung 1. Klasse für 15 Jahre 1913 (ehrenzeichen-orden.de)

regards, 

chuck 

Hi Vince, 

I already had it on order as the pieces i have seen on line are normally 3 x the price. I'll post some better photos later and see if i made a bad choice.

Thanks,

chuck