GMU

Wow, thank you very much Christophe!

Thank you Andy!  Yes, I have seen this particular page. As a matter of fact, I have searched all over the internet and over  several forums for more information without much success. This page confirms his PLM on 30.06.1918 and both his RAO4x and KrO4x in 1908.

He entered service in 1892 with 4 years in Schutztruppe, so he must have gotten his DA25 in 1913. The 1914 Rangliste confirms this award by 1914.

He was a Major when war started so it was pretty obvious he got both his EKs early on.

As a Prussian soldier with PLM he must have surely received the HHO3x before his plm award.

Bavaria, the second largest kingdom in importance after Prussia must have followed suit with his MVO4x.

The thing is that I would like more help from people with access to the award rolls, so that they can confirm dates, and answer the questions I posted before.

Thanks again Andy for your kind help

25 minutes ago, ccj said:

That’s a vey interesting ribbon bar. I can’t help you but certainly another member can.

 

do you own this bar and can you post the reverse side?

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I wish someone could help me answer these questions. Again, thanks in advance for any help received..

Anyone, anyone?

Can anyone with access to HHO rolls confirm hho3x on sept or oct 1917?

Is there anyone with access to Bavarian Militar Merit Order award recipients that can confirm this mvo4?

The ribbon on #10 is that of the Ottoman War Medal right?

Again, I will appreciate very much your help!!!!

Thanks

Hello, I am seeking help from the forum experts regarding the awards of Oberstlt. A.D. Josef Bischoff commander of the Eiserne Division in 1919. Major Josef Bischoff was awarded the Pour le Merite in June 30 1918. His estate was recently auctioned in Germany, and it included his ribbon bar. I have tried to identify his medals..Could anyone here provide me with more information about the date of these awards, or in general, about Josef Bischoff's service? Thank you very much in advance!

.

I am posting this at other forums as well. Thanks again!!!

1 hour ago, Schießplatzmeister said:

The document is not only not a period document, it is a relatively modern forgery.

And, I am sorry to say,  a bad one.

On 9/1/2011 at 22:12, Chris Liontas said:

Award document (photo of LT Jacobs in 1978 I think)

 

Yes, as others have said, this document doesn't look any good.  That is not Von Kanitz's original signature...

I hope you did not pay much for it. It is a copy. 

What a beauty !!

Hi Les, it has been a long time! Thank you all for your comments. It is a nice piece though, and I will keep it until more information is known. I will look under a microscope as you say Les. I know exactly what you mean. The cross on the right has such marks of movement.

George

Thank you for your replies.I can see that there is still a disagreement about this type. I wish more people comment about this. I am still confused a bit as to how old this piece could be. Some other details.

Ribbon is narrower aprox 43mm

Hello guys, I seek the advice from the experts here in relation to the following Pour le Merite. It is definitely not a Wagner/Friedlander, or Godet, or even pre WW1. It looks like a S&L, but this one is silver gilt (800 mark on lower arm), and of better quality than most of the S&L PLMs frequently seen. This one is very well done and looks very nice. It measures 54mm by 53mm. I do not have the weight at this moment. I will post more photos.  The question is, could this piece be pre 1945 or post 1945? Or, what is it then?

Beautiful. Congratulations

Wow, that's a beauty!

Very nice Litewka!

Claudio, thanks for posting these photos. I have seen this collection when I visited Neal in his museum in NJ back in 1994. He was a wonderful person and a good friend. His books are outstanding. The uniform belonged to Boelcke as Les said. Jacobs medals are original, and he got them directly from Jacobs himself back in the 70's. Berthold 's medals are original too. Interesting to note that his PLM has a joined "ur"

The one from Roman's friend is the one from german ebay, right?

This ist one piece from a "nachlass" that was offerd to me about two weeks ago. The price was 5.000 EURO. A little bit to much for me.

So I only buyed the MStHO from Roesner with case on ebay.

Here a picture from the complete "nachlass" that was sent to me by offering, bad quality.- I dont know the english word for "nachlass", sorry.

Regards, Ren?

What a loss! My heart sinks when I see groups broken up like this ???? sad, sad????

I?ve updated MvR?s awards dates.

MvR received Bremen?s Hanseatic Cross on Sept 25, 1917, three days after receiving L?beck?s. I guess Hamburg followed shortly.

This is Neal W O'Connor's replication. It is now in Berlin. Please note the NWOC used the Bavarian Military Merit Order, 3rd Class with Crown and Swords.

This is the one displayed at San Diego Air and Space Museum. This display is missing several orders, and has one that MvR never got !!!

Medal Bar

Yes, Daniel............I remember... Beautiful.

I looked for an Imtiaz for over 8 years !!

Did you, by any chance, keep the bare brass metal plate used in the order bar?

Nice project!

Attached I?m showing a copy of the original signed receipt for the cross for heroic deeds lippe-Detmold.

Manfred v. Richthofen listed his awards (until 23 October 1917).

Best regards

Roman

Thank you Roman. Outstanding document.

This is the list I have so far.

Cheers,

George

George,

Congratulations on putting everything together. It's been a while coming together.

My suggestion about whether to mount the medals onto a bar, or not, is do what NO did for his "famous chest" and simply wrap the ribboned medal around a carboard frame. You could put the "bar" in a ryker mount for display purposes, and leave the contents alone. Later if you ever wanted to dispose of the ribboned medals you could either sell the entire "bar" or remove them. Individually, and as a "group" they all add up to an impressive amount of money spent!

Again, a nicely done job!

Les

Hey Les!

That is a good idea. As a matter of fact, I have a complete set of new ribbons for each piece.

Thank you for the suggestion and for your comments

George

Finally, after many, many years, I have completed this project. One day I thought it would be cool to replicate Manfred von Richthofen?s Ordenskissen, and it all begun with an EK II. I acquired piece by piece individually without ever destroying or dismantling any existing bar. Some pieces were easy to find, but very expensive. Others were not that expensive, but very hard to find, at least for me. For example, I searched without any success for over 8 years for the Imtiaz medal in silver, with sabers, and when I finally got one, it wasn?t that expensive! Fortunately, most of the awards were acquired during ?the good old days? when two Deutsche Marks were exchanged for one US dollar. All awards are, to the best of my knowledge, genuine. Some notes:

1. The ribbon bar is obviously a reproduction. I have seen many around. This one is special for me though because it was given to me by my friend, the late Neal W O?Connor. He had made two of them many years ago. The problem with this one is that the Hanseatic Crosses were arranged in a different order as they were in MvR?s original bar. Neal made another one, in the correct order, and this was displayed many years in his museum. Now this bar is in Berlin.

2. The PLM is post 1918.

3. I have displayed here a Bavarian MVO 4th class with crown and swords because one can see a crowned MVO on MvR ?s original Ordenskissen . Neal O?Connor maintained for many years that MvR had a MVO 3rd class with crown and swords, so he displayed one on the replicated Ordenskissen that it is now in Berlin. However, there is no evidence that MvR received the MVO 3rd or the MVO 4th with crown. It is currently maintained that MVR received a 4th class with swords only, with no crown. However, how could we explain the crowned MVO on MvR?s original Ordenskissen?

Manfred von Richthofen original awards as displayed on his funeral services in 1925

I am still debating if I should mount all these medals onto an order bar?????????

Hello,

I?ve had this medal bar and ribbon bar since the mid 90?s. I have always wondered why the Hessen Bravery ribbon on the ribbon bar appears to be substituted with that of the Hamburg Hanseatic Cross.

At first glance, I thought that the blue color was faded through time, but I do not see any traces of it. The other possibility is that the only ribbon available at the time was that of the Hanseatic Cross, but this is very difficult to believe.

I guess, my question is whether or not this disparity has been seen before on other bars, and what reasons could there be for it to occur. Is this medal bar fake? If it isn?t, could it be traceable?

Thanks