gavinmedals

thanks for the posting William. Some great pieces.

Gavin

Hi David, if I have the description correct it is a known SAAF badge. It is the SAAF Navigator / Air Gunner brevet worn in 1937. I believe they are relatively rare as I have only seen very few in many years. I had one that sold on one of Michael Kaplan's auctions a couple of years ago but cannot recall what it went for. Will see if I still have this info.

Cheers

Gavin

Hi Mervyn, thanks for the tip. I am certainly aware of the Bronze Cross being the subject of tampering and I will bear the above news in mind as I am looking for a BSA Company medal in a group. Cheers Gavin

Hi Mervyn, I agree that the RGSM is underrated at the moment although as soon as you start talking Selous Scouts or Rhodesian SAS it becomes a bit of a different matter.

Also the Rhodesian's were very sparing with their decorations and lately they seem to be doing very well, if they come onto the market e.g. Silver Cross of Rhodesia, Police Conspicuous Gallantry Cross and so on. Apart from those where there is some published information / pre research already done I would suspect that it is nearly impossible to research under current circumstances. (hopefully I am wrong)

Cheers

Gavin

Hi Chris, good one

William, i have not seen this before and am scouring through some references. One thing though is if the abbreviation is in Dutch / Afrikaans then the "C" would be a strange one.

Cheers

Gavin

Great memorial to him. RIP.

Here is a question..... when SA was no longer "British" and had its own medals, agreed that campaign medals were mounted in order of the campaign... but could it be argued that the US DFC should maybe take the first place on the bar?

Chris, the USA DFC was seen as a foreign award and would thus not be mounted in the front of a South African group according to the order of precedence. As I recall the only "foreign" medal that received precedence over the South African series of awards, even after the Republic was established in 1961, was the Victoria Cross.

Cheers

Gavin

Hi, while waiting for the medal from the safe some of the following info for further consideration, unfortunately I am not near some of the references that I normally use at hand however there is a photo of Dodson in the book "2 Squadron in Korea" page 27. Brent's book says there were 55 USA DFC's awarded to South Africans for Korea. He completed 75 sorties and served Korea from 4 March 52 to 19 Aug 52. He completed his tour on the F51D Mustang. The Cheetah Squadron formed part of the 18th US Fighter Bomber group.

In terms of the order of wear the group is not correctly mounted assuming that he was only serving in the SAAF and the correct order as I have it would be as follows:

SA Korea medal, 39-45 Star, Italy Star, War medal, Africa Service medal, USA DFC, USA Air Medal, UN Korea, South Korea Medal.

According to my information he also received the Distinguished Unit Citation emblem during this time. I have at times seen the USA medals worn after the UN Korea.

Cheers

Gavin

Hi,

Here is a question... I think that is a US DFC... can it be that he does not have a brit DFC but a US one?

The group looks to be wearing mounted, so I dont see where another DFC would fit on the bar?

Hi Mervyn / Chris, thank you for showing the group, it is a great group. I am fortunate to have a few pilot groups in my collection. For interest sake there is a SA Korea pilot group to Naude with an American DFC and Air Medal on the currect City Coins Auction, Auction 63.

I have checked Forsyth's rolls and there is no reference to him having received the British DFC.

Cheers

Gavin

Are these US Awards ?

.....................................................................004.JPGclick...........................

Yes, they are the American Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Medal. In terms of the former there were about 48 awarded to South Africans for Korea and 178 Air Medals.

Regards

Gavin

Very interesting item. Thank you for taking the time to post it. Cheers Gavin

David, Thank you for the detailed story and the statistics on the decorations awarded.

Will. thanks for sharing your group as well. A new addition?

Hi Chris, that could very well be. In addition I have taken a bit of a closer look and suggest that the second ribbon is perhaps the horizontal ribbon for the DFC, as the stripes are more blue. Cheers Gavin

In addition the Arctic Medal would most likely have been mounted after his campaign medals?

Hi Chris, that could very well be. In addition I have taken a bit of a closer look and suggest that the second ribbon is perhaps the horizontal ribbon for the DFC, as the stripes are more blue. Cheers Gavin

Hi, thanks for listing these. I received a copy of these from Henk a number of years ago and agree that they are the best references for the ABO medal I have come across. Well worth a read by any one interested in the ABO medal and medals in general for that matter. Cheers Gavin

Hi Kev

This is a 1917 pattern service dress tunic for Scottish Regiments wearing Kilts (The version for trews had longer skirts). It differs from the 1908 pattern in that the cuffs have no loops but are plain gauntlet style as the ranking was now on the shoulder straps. You identified him as a Seaforth. Was that from the buttons?

The ribbons which I am able to identify are as follows:

(Row 1 L-R) Military Cross / Airforce Cross (Original pattern Awarded April 1918) / Arctic Expedition 1912-1914 / King Edward's South Africa Medal 1901-2

(Row 2 L-R) India General Service 1908 / 1914 Star / British War Medal / Victory Medal

(Row 3 L-R) Territorial Efficiency Medal 1908 / Unidentified / Unidentified.

Seems as if this was quite an adventurous individual, I wish one could find a name, rank or something. He was obviously a Royal Flying Corps officer who had maintained his Scottish regimental identity with his tunic. Especially since had had no collar badges. If he served in South Africa in 1901, he was probably nearing or in his forties by the end of the war, so this may have been his final service. The territorial efficiency medal may mean that he was in the Territorial Force of 1908. I doubt if there were that many RFC officers seconded from the Seaforths with this medal array so it may be worth looking it up.

If anyone doesn't agree with my assessment, please post what information you maight have. But this is all for now.

Bruce

Hi, agree that it looks like a KSA ribbon on the ribbon bar, however I do not see a QSA ribbon. This seems a bit odd, given that I was always led to believe that the KSA was not awarded without the QSA or do I have it wrong? Cheers Gavin Apologies omitted to mention that it is great tunic.

Hi, I would suggest that you try and source the book; "Heroes of the Albert Medal" by Allan Stanistreet. Apparently it gives the full account of each Albert Medal awarded to both men and women of the armed services who did not survive to exchange their medals for the George Cross in 1971. Unfortunately I do not have a copy to help you out however it is available through the Medal News website.

Cheers

Gavin

Great tunic complete with insignia and medal bars. Are you able to attribute it to an individual?

Thank you for the link, had a quick look a the book and some interesting info. Regards Gavin

Great group and really enjoyed all the ephemera that went with it. It just adds to the whole story. Thank you for sharing.

Gavin

Hi, I am aware of the following guys you can try is Alec Kaplan and son (Mike Kaplan), 115 DUNOTTAR

STREET, SYDENHAM, 2192, JOHANNESBURG,

PO BOX 28913, SANDRINGHAM, 2131, R.S.A.

There is also the War Store which is at the SA National Military History Museum in Johannesburg.

Hope this is of help

Cheers

Brian, thank you for taking all the time to post and share the stories. Still some reading to do but it is appreciated. I have a SA Police group to a POW, I am waiting for the copies of the research document and will share once I have had a chance to work through the paperwork

Cheers

Gavin

Excellent, thanks for sharing. Unfortunately do not have a Sudan group to tempt you with.

It is a change however back to the medal, it looks like an Air Force Cross. It was instituted by warrant dated 11 April 1981 following approval by PW Botha, State President of South Africa at the time.

Awarded to members of the South African Air Force and other members of the SADF, Auxiliary service or other armed forces attached to the SAAF. It was awarded for "distinguished service in dangerous situations by their exceptional courage, leadership, skill, ingenuity or tenacity in the handling of personnel, weaponry or other equipment."

The paratrooper to her right has been awarded the Army Cross, if I am spotting the colour correctly.

Cheers

Gavin

Chris, you are correct with the order of precedence. The DTD came before the DSO. Great impressive collection of groups.

Cheers

Gavin