Rogi

looks like Емин Деја as rank? Which would be a Ottoman customs rank, similar to steward or Tax Official, very interesting as if I read the rank correctly these men could also be non-Muslims

While the other "rank" looks like Емин веу which means higher (Customs officer/tax official etc or whatever the Ottoman rank is :S )

I can't make out the name :S I'm not that great on these old docs and reading them I'll have a try tonight again :)

I'd say fake, other features are very poor as well and without exterior shot, I'd pass. Especially for the price these are going for in today's market, I'd rather not risk it

This should be stickied up at the top, I think it would really help the family out and would be nice for these to stay within our GMIC family to those who cherish Rick's docs and legacy.

Judging by this price tag

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=22667

he is still going stong

I don't know, the busted latch kinda ruins the whole outlook on the case itself sad really.

Well, look at that: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Japanese-Enamel-Medal-Order-of-the-Golden-Kite-1st-Class-Breast-Badge-Orig-/191148734985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c815a3a09

it's the same breast star that was sold last year and posted in this topic: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/58343-1st-class-golden-kite-on-ebay/

Only this time the seller has a rating of 0 ...

I'd be careful.

How is this not legit!

0 Rep gives so much credibility to this listing lol (joke )

No, seriously, its sad people resort to this style of listings :(

Excellent piece and addition to the collection :D

There are many, many, many photos..... I tried to make the book something people like me (who would rather look at photos than read) could enjoy...

I would give you a thumbs up smiley for this post, if I could or a "like" hehehe :)

Yes I think this can be agreed upon by all.

5 torches = silver, smooth reverse

6 rorches= silver, smooth reverse

bronze, grainy reverse

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the orange thing beneath the star seems to be excessive enamel

Agreed with all above

Whatever the grainy thing is on them, it aint silver that is for sure :D

Ahhh...let's get to the "it's now a real book!" stage first. There are a lot of steps in the publishing process before due dates can officially be set. Of course, I will post that all on the forum so that way people will know when to expect it. At this point, I don't even know if anyone at the publisher has been able to read through it...it's 140,000 words, so it's a pretty long-reading book.

Pesh, publishers don't read through books, they just look at the pictures (joke ) hehehehe I am hopping there are many photos ! hehehe

Recently found this one online on the big auction site, could be manufacturing mistake or repair job (since the needle on the reverse was broken, it isn't out of the question that it could have fallen but again could of happened any time and we can't tell) Although this one has small bits of black in the white enamels from what I can tell in the photos.

Different style Torch too which is cool

#2

The Crowns looks very Italian in nature (2 small ones) the other large ones with 5 points (3 in total) look non-European to me. I'll do some digging and see what they might be :)

I see nothing wrong with the enamel. Were is it supposedly replaced? Are you concerned about the dots in the white enamel? That would mean that the complete enamel of this piece must have been replaced. That would only be the case if the piece was devastatingly damaged. Other than the enamel the order seems to be near mint, no? In that case even the central enamel would have to be replaced which is only possible if the coat of arms would've been taken off. That should leave some marks (aka you can't remove rivets without destroying them) - that doesn't seem to be the case, either. And last: for enamel to be flat it has to be cut like a gem - meaning that such a process if done by a common jeweler would most likely leave some marks (for example abrasion of the gilding).

The reason for these dots is probably a production mistake. Enamel powder consists of several ingredients and if they're mixed in wrong ratio this is a possible consequence.

I was referring to the Red enamel on the stars (which can break fairly easily, usually 1 fall is what it takes) , I can only say through personal experience but my father had his Order of the Republic sent into the Army to have the enamel repair work done (although he had the complete overhall since everything was broken on the enameling, to who it was sent, I have no idea), I remember as a child it being Orange instead of the Ruby/Scarlet Red on other orders. This is where my favorite color, Orange originally began

Of course they could have sent him a replacement, but it had the same knicks and dings as his older one, so I'm assuming they did repair work.

I've seen a couple listed online in similar states, most with full enamel work (since most have had these enamel fully break) but occasionally you can find one with 3 replacements and 1 intact or various combos. In my experience most of these replacements had everything replaced to match the other stars and make the Order uniform. They seem to all have the thinner gilding in the interior of the star.

Here are some examples of online Stars, you can see where the Orange in the bottom picture resembles the same Orange as in this Order in the thread (which I put as the 1st star for comparison) and if you notice the repair wasn't done perfectly as the re-gilded area is crooked on the bottom star.

Of course we could say this is all speculation and it could very well be a manufacturing error, but this is all I can convey from personal experience

The right Stars are from what the Scarlet/Ruby color was intended to look like.

The Oranges all seem to have rough looking areas on their enamel. It resembles sand when I look at it from my perspective, this area can either be rough or a clear and clean texture depending on how the enamel has set. Although in these orange pieces the "sand" look is always present.

Unfortunatley with not too much info. on Yugoslavian Orders and production methods, I can't say for sure and can only offer what I've experienced.

The white enamel has an odd dots as well, but there are a couple in similar orders.

There is also a crack (hairline) in the white enamel, but I won't go into that for now.

It is an interesting piece with character it isn't mint, but very close to it, there are a couple areas on the reverse with noticeable wear scratches etc. and the central Torches and wreath are fine at best in gilt wear, there is a noticeable difference between the central Torch and Wreath and the gilding on the base (the base of the order)

Whether this is a repair to the enamel or manufacturing defect I don't know, but I'd be interested in other's opinions on this piece as well as I'm opinion to others' experiences and info.

The enamel is replacement looks very similar to nail polish, is it "hard" when you touch it a bit with the finger?

Everything else looks fine (even the wreath and Star on the torch is even in these photos) the first photo on this topic looked like the star had smaller arm on the right edge.

It is silver, later period issue congrats

Ah so yours was the left order not the right one and it has a "hallmark", I was under the assumption that it doesn't have any hallmark.

Ok if it has the Ikom mark it is silver I've got a couple of their pieces that are definatley silver and each has this marking. Paja and I have been discussing this one and their markings for a while I'm 99.9% sure your piece is silver gilt, from our conversation now that we see the reverse and marking. There are also a lot of Yugoslavian Orders with 0 hallmarks and are silver

I wouldn't worry about the hallmark too much.

It doesn't have abrasive surface on its reverse, most of these are metal and not silver if they are abrasive.

Would you be able to take a high quality photo of the front of the order as well?

I think that there was a repair to the star's enamels as we've previously talked about

The only other thing that concerns me about this piece is the difference in Gilding, the back and "base" of the piece is almost mint in the Gilt. While the central "Flame" and Wreath appear warn. I'd love a better shot of those areas to see if it is the quality in photo or if this actually is a difference in gilding.

The airframe is too crumpled up but the tire looks like a Nieuport 17 tire. Although this is a complete guess, we don't have any other significant feature of the aircraft to compare, unfortunately

At this point in the war, it was either a regular 17 (which fell victim easily to German aircraft) or a 17bis. Although I'm not sure which squadron was stationed near the fighting at this sector.

In the rear of the photo it looks like the RAF roundel from the wing, it is bent up a bit but in the right section of the photo.

Does it match the size of 2nd class orders (do you have a second class to compare with?) ? This one to me looks more like a 3rd class dressed up as a 2nd.

The 3rd has almost identical style stars, while 2nd class have a much nicer and polished look to the stars themselves.

Another thing, anything of these orders has from what I've seen so far with the star, a "mini" star in the connecting points of the stars in the gilt. The enamel almost looks like a good coat of nailpolish vs enamel on this example in the photo.

This example has something that just looks like lines attaching to the points in the center of the star.

When you look at the star above the Flames, it also, appears not to be a star that is equal to each arm. All the examples I've seen of Yugoslavian Orders that are made have very sharp looking stars in this area.

Do you have a full reverse of this order in a picture or two?

I'll try to post some pics today to explain what I mean in these cases.

Sweet combo love it also when the colors match up so nicely on a bar

Very interesting thank you for sharing this one with us Radmilo

The diamonds ruin the whole order a bit for me in this instance, make the eagle look a bit cartoonish

Looks similar to Cavalry/ Scout Imperial Russian Shoulder boards, although I like the design a lot

I think the embroidery will be the key

Is it known the difference in weight of silver and metal orders ? What about poor enamel ?

I think it is somewhere, I'll take a look for the weight info. and if I find it post here, as for enamel, it could easily be an enamel replacement that wasn't done that well, although we have the luxury of passing on these orders and going to the next ones, sometimes the enamel is broken and people "fix' it rather than leave it be.

Just to announce...my book specifically on Soviet medals to the US Navy, Merchant Marine, and Coast Guard has been completed and turned over to the publisher. Hopefully it will be out sometime in 2015 or so...

Great news to hear congradulations on completing the book and here is to many more to come

I only collect Soviet awards that were awarded for fighting against Finns. There might be some but I dont know before I do research for those.. There is one Suche Bator and five different Polar Stars - nothing from Albania.

Jani

Very similar to my collecting interests I have a Bravery Medal that you'd love to check the citation of

The problem with lots of Yugoslavian orders is the countless varients, I believe that in this price range it is very unusual to spot a fake(but they are out there)

Without the reverse shot of this order I would not buy it. The frontal shot is very crude as well and if this is a legitimate piece it is a very harsh striking. From just the frontal shot I would say to pass. You can probably find a more legitimate and nicer looking variant floating around, you just have to keep looking. This looks more like a 3rd class, re-gilded and tried to pass off as a 2nd.

To my knowledge, 5 and 6 torches were all gilded silver (2nd classes), none were tombac or metal in this era. (even most without hallmarks are silver)the only ones in Tombac that I know of are non-Yugoslavian varients and 6 Torches, most are occasionally in Milosevic era. but this is a more recent awarding group pre dissolution of the Government and only a few have been seen on the market, mostly of other orders, but this is getting into other details.

Hope that helped a bit :)

It was listed before the weekend and looks very interesting. I inquired to the asking price and it is enough to purchase a house enough to place your orders in :)

Are you looking for more of his badges specifically that he had? (Kirasic?)

If so, pm me and I'll direct you to where there are a lot We can't advertise on the forum so I would share the info. in pm :)