Glenn R

Hi M.

the cross looks absolutely fine to my eyes. Nice piece. 
I’m no expert on urkunde but from the examples I’ve owned I see no problems with that one. 
perhaps if you post it in the signatures forum someone will be able to identify the awarding officer. 
 

nice set. 

On 28/03/2009 at 15:47, Brian Wolfe said:

Hello Everyone,

This is a cloth patch that was issued to the Staffordshire Police service who were serving during the Queen's Jubilee. This commemoritive patch was worn on the lower sleeve and measures 45mm in diameter. These disapeared from use as new jackets were issues to replace worn ones and the patches were usually not transferred to the new jacket by the officers.

Regards

Brian,

just leafing back through your thread here and I a

On 28/03/2009 at 15:47, Brian Wolfe said:

Hello Everyone,

This is a cloth patch that was issued to the Staffordshire Police service who were serving during the Queen's Jubilee. This commemoritive patch was worn on the lower sleeve and measures 45mm in diameter. These disapeared from use as new jackets were issues to replace worn ones and the patches were usually not transferred to the new jacket by the officers.

Regards

Brian

 

 

Just leafing back through this thread Brian and I can add something to this post.

this badge was worn on the lower left sleeve of our tunics and “nato” sweaters back in the day. Not sure if its still worn, but it represents the freedom of the borough of Stafford awarded to all officers at some point in the past.
Apparently it conferred the right to March through Stafford with drawn swords or to herd livestock through the town! Personally I never took up either option. 
 

Glenn

I tend to leave mine as I find them but it's each to their own.

An original pin reattached to this cross would do nothing to hurt the integrity of the piece.

To me a damaged pin is a bit of character though!

Glenn

Beautiful and very rare. Well done Jannis,  that's a fine cross for any collection. One I'd love to find complete and marked as yours is.

Glenn

Thanks Rob.

Eric,

Yes I was really excited last night to see that it was from the same maker. It does have a real hand made look and finish to it. Very finely made.

There's  nothing under the pin, no other markings. I was wondering about the Vatt under Mutt myself. Sadly I have no understanding of German dialects but you could well be right on either of those. Daddy and mummy is usually replaced by mum and dad over here as you get older.

Feasibly it could simply be a trait of that particular family and not common.

Very pleasing engraving, so well done. Under a loup you can really appreciate the workmanship.

Glenn.

As promised. A few pics of the new Cross which arrived today. 

Interesting to see that it is double 800 stamped similarly to the double 800 stamped crosses shown on the other thread on the subject by Chris and Eric however in this case both stamps are running vertically but in different directions. On the pin the 8 is at the top and on the arm, the bottom.

Any observations re the maker or similarities/differences to the other thread gents?

Glenn.

Lovely piece Joel. Such a high quality screw back pattern and so nicely finished.

Congratulations!

Glenn

Cheers Joel

That is a beauty. Seems I commented on it in 2008! My memory really doesn't stretch that far but my opinion hasn't changed. Thanks Eric. Glenn

Thanks ccj.

Yes clearly a few differences there. I'm intrigued to see if there's any markings on the pin when closed.

Not easy to see from the angle its at but the pin appears quite similar. I shall certainly post more images once it arrives Eric. Do you have any pics of your CD style?

Glenn

I just managed to bag this one in my endless quest for engraved crosses. Haven't got it in the hand yet so these are the only pics I have. Appears to be the same maker I'd say?

Coming with the receipt and box from Spinks Auction House from 1981 where it fetched the princely sum of £41.

Having said that I started collecting EKs in the late 80's and could pick a belter up for that money.

I do love personalised gift crosses like this one. Unit and date marked crosses are obviously researchable and who doesn't love them but I do have a real soft spot for this type of engraving as to my mind it tells a different side of the war's story.

Glenn.

Great little collection Chuck thanks for sharing

Personally I'd be happy to  buy this a a WW1 period made cross. There being a large variety of screwbacks made during and post war, it's a really nice cross Chuck. Thanks for posting 

Glenn 

Surprising there are few about. Same award criteria for all officers. Maybe it's possible that more female officers leave  before the award length of service is reached. Don't have any statistics to offer on that one.

Glenn.

Mr Fischer,

thanks for sharing your cross with us. I'm sorry that it appears to be a copy. 

Unfortunately copies theses days, if you've not seen the specific example before can be quite convincing. When I was first collecting crosses as a teenager, they were generally very obvious. Poor metals, no details etc. 

They are sadly much more convincing these days. In this case, the fake has been identified and discussed but there are new fakes appearing all the time so it's only with the knowledge of identified genuine crosses that you can detect that something is worth avoiding. It is without doubt a minefield. 

I've done exactly what you've done as I sure most of us here have at some point so please don't be discouraged. This forum is a great way to learn and to obtain genuine pieces. There are also books in print now that can help identify crosses. 

I hope this experience hasn't put you off contributing here, you're in good company. If any long term collector can claim that they've never bought a dud they're with not telling the truth or are unaware that they've got a few in their collection.  I bought three crosses from a dodgy source back in the early 2000's and was distraught when I realised by posting them on line. 

Good luck with the next one!

Glenn. 

"The prevalence of intemperance in women".

You can almost see the beak's face like some Spike Milligan character covered in dust!

Don't suppose for one moment he considered that the wives of serving soldiers were under any sort of stress and needed to get a bit drunk to let off steam.

Love these kind of old news stories.

And I'm by no means trying to say I'm an expert here. I just love engraved pieces. If it doesn't feel right in any way I'll pass on it. In doing so I've probably missed a few gems but hey ho.

I know that there are many good hand engravers out there who could replicate with some skill the style of engraving that we see in genuine period pieces.

The potential to turn a far higher profit by faking something is never ignored entirely. Different topic I know but look on certain auction sites this year since the interest in WW1 and the centenary has widened the market to inexperienced collectors. You'd think that all the Germans did was shoot british soldiers in the wallet. Never seen so many 1914 pennies with a bullet lodged in them. I know it's a far cry from a well engraved EK fake but the principle for fakers is the same. Money from something made more desirable than it originally was.

I got burned once many years ago with a piece that was very well hand engraved in a period style. I took quite a leap of faith thinking I'd found something of a golden nugget and ignored my gut feeling. Turned out it was a fake engraving.

Typically it was a really attractive unit and prominent historic event. I just ignored my gut as I've said.

For me it is a piece by piece decision. So many things to take into consideration and In my experience the quality and style of the engraving is only a small part of that process.

I believe the pictures are largely in German..... Sorry, I mean OF Germans.

The English one. Only had a quick look through so far though. Is that a reference to the quality of translation Chris?

Loos in September will be a massive interest for me. The North Staffordshires, many from Stoke on Trent lost heavily there.

Couldn't wait. Got my copy today. Thanks for the recommendation Chris. On initial flick through it looks superb. I do need a wheelbarrow to lift it though!

I remember this one. Nice cross.

Thanks Chris. That's recommendation enough for me. Just waiting for the post Xmas pay day then I shall be investing.

This is the kind of information for me that attracts me far more than technical specs. Although admittedly that can be very useful and interesting.