JimZ

WOW!

Lovely collection!!! I am speechless. What you have is sheer beauty....including the wall to wall display!

Jim

What is with the latvian reproductions?? Seem to me to be a bit more than the cottage industry I thought it might be!

Jim

I always thought that orders are officially minted and that these would be masse produced to some extent or another. Yet we have come across a number of orders with makers marks.

What exactly are makers marks? Which orders carry these marks? Why would an official government award have a personalised maker's mark on it? And who are the makers?

I have never given this much thought before and have just accepted this as the way some orders came! But the question is now bothering me! So I have decided to do this the "lazy" way and ask the forum....

Of course scans of such marks will only help to add colour to the otherwise olive drab forum background

Jim

Thanks for taking to this thread......

Nice to see the little sparks that kindled the flames......

Jim

PS - Dave, Dutchboy your scans if and when u can ?? We wanna see your first babes

Why don't you just try asking him directly as opposed to the/any forum. Direct questions will more often than not get direct answers in less time. (My twist to Ocham's Razor!)

Its funny though to see how having discussed sundry ODMs, sellers and dealers amongst many many other things we may now start to turn our attention to other buyers..... Like the field is not vast enough already as it is!

I would question many other buyers who are constantly paying insane money for fakes and nothing else. Just take a look at German Ebay if you want to get really depressed!

Regards,

Jim

Marshall Konstantin Rokossovsky.

I am sure I said this somewhere on another thread.....But Napoleon was of the opinion that "Men are led by toys!" and with this in mind, he instituted the Legion d'Honneur! At least that's a quothe I remember studying and for my history essays back in school!! - When I see these heavily bemedelled characthers I cannot help but think of that!

Another quothe says that the "he who dies with the most toys wins!" Funny that this very capitalist idea seemed to be a driver behind these heavyweight communist politicians.... makes you wonder about the inherent cracks that never allowed the soviets to fully achieve their communist dreams and that finally helped to bring the system down!

On a lighter note.......I, like Brezhnev and Tito also like...no...LOVE ODMs ... Anyone volonteering 3 or 4 HSU's please .... even 1 order of victory would do it for me....

Jim

I agree with Dave that it really does not take a rocket scientist to look at this forum and see that files are being released. It does not take a rocket scientist to look through ebay or dealer sites to see documented/researched groups. And given that the USSR probably produced more rocket scientist than anyone else I really do not see any problem for them to trace any one releasing info should they want to! Moreover, if the in researchers in question create a website, then it is even easier to track the person responsible! The aura of cloak and dagger is really nothing more than make belief and if anyone thinks otherwise then he is really insulting the intelligence of the Russian authorities!

However, having said that, not posting a name is fully understandable if the researchers request that their identity remain private for whatever reason.

But I still think that by and large researchers are doing nothing wrong or illegal whether in providing their very useful service. To the contrary, they bring to us the names and deeds that make what would just be a piece of silver and enamel eye candy into something special, personal and worth treasuring forever!

Jim

6 Tram tickets (Austrian I believe) ...... Not exactly in the pockets.....more like in the fold at the end of the sleeve of a German field grey great coat. The nice thing is that I knew the person to whom the coat belonged. He was an Oberfeldwebel in with the Luftwaffe Flak/Anti aircraft and I spent several days besides him trying to figure out his story! Sadly, my phrase book was not a good enough tool. I also have his tunic, medals and other uniform insigna ..... Back to the sleeve contents! I never figured out when those tickets got there but i'd assume it was towards the end of the war after his POW days in Italy....unless he of course was still using his coat after the war - I know he still used his belt as the buckle bears an eagle with the Swastika filed down....

Definitely not my area .... but one of the treasures from my younger collecting days which I will never ever part with!

Jim

Oh my God!!!! Lets hope they resurface somewhere and u can track them down. Sure forum members will lend a hand where they can!

No matter what their insurance value may be, a collection gone in a night is absolutely heartbreaking!

Jim

A friend of mine asks.... "$180 for an ORBL!!! Is the world going crazy?"

Erm.... I say "YES!!" ...even given the case of the additional "0"

Your opinions now that we all know about the rogue serial numbers ???

Jim

Ha ha Mike ... always a learning experience for all of us

Regards

Jim

Cool idea Gerd but I think Ralph has just nailed it .... 100% made from clear plexiglass/perspex, wide base with centre of gravity right through the centre of the base. Lightweight transparent structure.....

Brilliant!

Jim

I thought that the obverse looked ok! As I said, nothing fundamentally wrong with the medal especially going off the obverse... sloppy for the lower star rivet happens.

I cannot say that I have seen the serial number starting with "0" before so that's something new for me. I personally still would not pay more that $40-$45 max for any T6V2 without a booklet on the best of days as its just a serial number that is different and its not a variation or subvariation in itself. Not up my alley and honestly, its something very easy to fake (like cyrillic 'D' marks).

As far as this auction, I am glad the seller did conclude his sale in spite of the best meant attempts (Mike )especially given the price he manegd to get! But assuing that there was someting wrong with the serial number I still think that the seller was correct in his description without trying in anyway to capitalise on an unusual the serial number (like some try to do on the tank tracks of the "For Bravery" Medal!). I personally would not have seen any reason to ask him to alter the decription or remove the auction. Entirely in his defence.

My opinion - even if a serial number is altered (which could completely throw off any research attempts) its really just as bad as the serial number being scratched out. The ODM will be valued less by some than by others but if its an original ODM, like all others it would still be looking for a loving home where it can be treasured.

Regards,

Jim

Lemme echo Ed's comments that we should not get into any forum wars and live peacefully with eachother. Each one makes his bed and each one lies in it... And everyone is comfy as he pleases yes!

to all collectors wherever they are......

Jim

Question:

I usually have a keen eye for detail I am baffled. At first glance the obverse of this order looks like any other T6V2 Order of Red Banner of Labour and I would have no reason to doubt it. The reverse appears to have a serial number preceeded by a zero and a rivet that I do not particularly like. I would not have put my money on it. But I still see nothing fundamentally wrong with this order given the quality of the obverse. I see the seller has by and large given a proper description of the order (unless the description was changed) and it appears he has not made any attempt to capitalise on the 'unusual' serial number.

I confess myself baffled. What am I missing??

Jim

Yet again, post 53 shows a fake 2nd class Kutuzov which sold for the princely sum of EUR871 or USD1,140. I do not usely like to follow fakes once I have spotted them except the ones which I think might really fool some naive buyer. This auction goes to show the stakes that are involved when collectors do not know what they are doing. What a waste of very good money!!!

The citations actually have that info on them. I don't have them with me at the moment, but I can post that up when I pull them out.

Cool!!! Pity you ain't a dentist...they usually pull them out in no time! May this be a case of an already lovely group which research glorifies even further...... we're waiting.... Impatiently in case u have not noticed

Jim

Had not seen this thread earlier. Lovely group Dave especially to have with reserach. Funny how time and again awardees express themselves as having received lesser orders instead of the ones their peers received. Makes you wonder as to why the yardstick was so different not only within different units but maybe even within the very same unit.

If the gentleman in question was indeed a test pilot wouldn't it be nice to know which hardware (now obsolete) to put his name to?

Jim

90% of medals "souveniered" by the allies in 44-45 were stolen from the germans....

I want them returned... best place to send them is a small own in Bavaria, I will keep them here until the rightful owners claim them !!!!

Well Chris.... We appreciate your ver good intentions!!! But in all fairness, were Iron Crosses (just to mention one award with alll its various grades) serial numbered.

And herein lies the problem that allows specific orders to be traced. Mind you, most of us look at serial numbers a blessing, not only because you can place the approximate time of the award but through research you can find so much more that that! Its strange to think that collectors sometimes treasure and respect medals more than the legitimate heirs do! Like those 'heirs' who claim that medals were stolen to then resell them again.... How very sad..... If the awards are not dear to you sell them by all means. But do not use one man's awards to make an illegitimate profit.... Lying and cheating does not do honour to the awards which are the subject of such lies! It is a sad day when this happens!

Jim

OK Chris. Thanks for clarification. I think it would have been shocking had this been the case.... but well it may not have been the case this time but somone somewhere has Khruschevs ODMs and many others obtained through criminal activity. In principle I agree and echo what has been said before that we should not sanction any criminal activity and although demand is driving supply we should not, I repeat NOT encourage such demand in a manner that ODMs be obtained in any way whatsoever.

Jim

I must say this is my fourth or fifth time back since my last post to look and admire....... I have to repeat..... WOW Chris !!!

Jim

Chris clarify please ..... where those orders on auction some or all of Nikita Kruschev's ODM's???

Cough cough splutter!!!!!

Jim

Post #44 showed OSM 1,2 & 3. Although I did not follow the 3rd class, the 1st class sold for $162 and the 2nd class sold for $108. And what surprises is how people actually fight for these fakes! I cannot but stress the need for literature and research especially when you are starting out in order to ensure that your hard earned dollars (or Euros) are well spent!!!

What have you done? Post in the wrong section and got banned?

Cheeky Soviet!!! !!!!!!! But true...Do tell us Christian??