JimZ

Thanks Alfred. A very detailed list. Are these all observed by yourself based on award books? Also what are the table colomns. I take it that the first is the order number, the second the award date....and the third colomn? Is that the document issue date perhaps? Thanks for your help and support. Data severely lacking on this order.

Regards

Jim

Gentlemen,

Re groups and splitting or not. I agree that a group should be kept intact because of its history. Much as it hurts to see a group split up however, once a group is sold the responsibility passes from dealer to buyer and much as I disagree with it, the buyer is after all free to do as he pleases, even if this breaks a fundamental unwritten code of ethics when dealing with medals. My word to dealers would be that if you are really collectors at heart and if you really feel heartbroken about your group being broken up, then do not sell the group in the first place or at least try to watch out who this is sold to!! Its impractical....I should know!

My experience - I did once have a lovely group of British medals which was very dear to me and I did want to sell this to finance my present collection. However I asked buyers to take time to contact me as I would only sell the group if this was to be retained as such. It did complicate my life with all the correspondence I received. And of course, there was no real guarantee that the end buyer would not eventually split it up! But thanks to my screening this group finally went to a person whom I now also know personally. Even better, I can go see this group whenever I am in the same country! But that is why I chose to be a collector and not a dealer!

On another note, I have personally witnessed the "creation" of groups. One case was on ebay when an ORB was first advertised as a standalone piece and as it remained unsold (due to a ridiculous reserve) it later found itself on a group bar the week after. I gave the guy flak and blacklisted his auctions (and i hope others did same!)

Either way, my view is that a group has its own energy and just like energy which cannot be created or destroyed, A MEDAL GROUP SHOULD NOT BE CREATED OR DESTROYED!! And collectors, when you witness dealers splitting up or creating groups please avoid them rather than support them!!

Jim

Cannot make out the serial number on the partially closed booklet. If u would oblige......

Thanks. Very interesting actually to see that 32717 is dated 1983 and 43995 which is sequentially after the previous one is dated 1977. Its still too early to say if this order is gonna be one of those tricky ones. More feedback appreciated gents lets try to nail this.

Jim

Cannot make out the serial number on the partially closed booklet. If u would oblige......

Gentlemen,

I'm gonna be courageous and try for the data on a third order as well as the ORB labour and Order of the badge of honour. But that's it for now. I'll move onto others once I close of this research!!

I'd now also like try to compile some data re award dates and serial numbers of the "Order of Friendship of Peoples".

Could anyone having award booklets or reseach for this order kindly send in the data and possibly scans of the award booklet showing serial number and award date so that I can attempt to compile data.

Thanks for your very kind assistance and I hope that your feedback is good enough to be able to present something of interest at a later date.

Thanks to all for your support.

Jim

(Also please see similar threads for the "Order of the Badge of Honour" and "Order of the Red Banner of Labour" - Thanks)

I just looked at the docs and based on the content tried to explain what they are. Cannot be the one to say whether it comes with a medal or badge as I have not seen anything of the sort before. But the name did catch my attention and I thought I'd look it up. Beyond that.....I hope someone else throws more light on them for ya!

Just found these in a pile of soviet medal doucments, does any one know what they are for?

Order of Victory

Best as I can say the lower document is a pass for transport department of NKGB USSR of Lvov Railroads issued to Seargeant Duchenko Roman (patronym illegible)

The upper document is a certificate of award for active participation of work awarded by Volonteers Society of Assistance to Soviet Army (DOSAAF). Signature appears to be of Marshal of Soviet Union C.M. Budyonny.

If its a signature not a stamp it could be an interesting document. If you wanna see more about the guy just check this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semyon_Budyonny

Regards

Jim

on both threads Order of Victory. Keep them coming gents.

Gentlemen,

I'd like try to compile some data re award dates and serial numbers of the "Order of the Badge of Honour".

Could anyone having award booklets or reseach for the Order of the Badge of Honour kindly send in the data and possibly scans of the award booklet showing serial number and award date so that I can attempt to compile data. Any interesting or early variations are always worth showing as well.

Thanks for your very kind assistance and I hope that your feedback is good enough to be able to present something of interest at a later date.

Thanks.

Jim

(Also please see similar thread for the Order of the Red Banner of Labour - Thanks)

Gentlemen,

I'd like try to compile some data re award dates and serial numbers of the "Order of the Red banner of Labour".

Could anyone having award booklets or reseach for the ORB of labour kindly send in the data and possibly scans of the award booklet showing serial number and award date so that I can attempt to compile data. Any interesting or early variations are always worth showing as well.

Thanks for your very kind assistance and I hope that your feedback is good enough to be able to present something of interest at a later date.

Thanks.

Jim

(Also please see similar thread for the Order of the Badge of Honour - Thanks)

[attachmentid=48546]

Gentlemen,

I'm sure most of us might have been watching the 2nd class Order of Suvorov up on one of the auction sites. Sold for the modest sum of USD3,000 I still have not drawn my conclusions as to whether or not this was a stunning original or an excellent fake. Search as i could I did not find this particular award up for discussion on the site. I therefore thought I'd ask you gentlemen to post mortem of this item.

Jim

Not really my field - Very crisp polished silver for an 1870 and the rust could be a lovely touching touch. No other apparant markings. Tis? Tis Not? Tis? Tis Not?........My guess Tis Not? Gentlemen......

Nothing sacred these days is there! What a butcher!

Would actually be interesting to see if the shiny type veteran of labour medals were actually issued at one particular period or other. Alas, as the medal is not numbered there is the usual problem of matching medal to document. My idea is to see if this was just a 'freak' manufacture on a number of medals or just a different grade of manufacture. Would a different chemically applied patina (or lack of) constitute a variation in the same way as a different ring would? Also interesting to see the small differences in manufacture Mondvor pointed out.

Here is a fake mother heroine medal with large rivets and no serial number and a genuie one to compare.

But there are different variants of mother heroine medal witk different position of the rivets and different mint mark stamps.

Agreed. The riveted version I was referring to is in fact the one on the right and my belief was that it was fake. I have even seen it serial numbered once. Good to have it confirmed though.

Seen a number of Mother Heroine Orders with large rivets - mostly on ebay. As far as i know it none of the Mother Heroine Orders have large protruding smooth silver rivets. Could it be some budding entrepreneur out there? Or is it something I am missing? Will post a pic of them next time i see one.....

Aha - perhaps when I sold it to you???

Dave

Cool Dave I assure you no regrets on that one. Jim

Cheers Doc. Very good to know........!!!! Jim.

Test parachutist? How many could there have been and would they really issue some sort of award for them? Its amazing what sort of awards seem to crop out of nowhere sometimes. On the subject of testing parachutes.....would this also have been awarded posthumously?

Yeah - its quite a mouthful I reckon a very interesting exercise nonetheless. Maybe something one can take up hoping that other members are helpful enough to help with the pooling of information. Really worth its while at the end! So all the more appreciative of your efforts and work. This here collector put them to good use. Thanks Rick!!

Gentleman,

Whilst on the topic of veteran medals, I have come accross medals for Veteran of Labour both with a dark patina applied to the obverse of the medal as well as with no patina at all (i.e. obverse and reverse both silver cloured). There is no mention of this medal with no patina in the "Red Bible" and yet these medals seem to be around. Can anyone help with this?

Cheers!

Is there a new updated version of the book or is it still the 1997 edition? Not that there is much to update on although more info on spotting certain fakes as well as more info on the award docs would make the book that little bit more complete. Interestingly my very treasured copy came all the way from Russia a few years back. It cost my mother in law much more than the price on the dust jacket. but she could never go wrong such a gift!

As far as the blocks of awards being issued, I have a few that I'm waiting on research for that may have been unissued, interspersed with some that were issued...

70569 - pending

70574 - pending

70580 - pending

74520 - 9.9.86

86497 - 22.2.89

86711 - pending

95150 - pending

98191 - pending

Or, they may have simply had citations that never made it to the Archives... Only time will tell!

Dave

Interestingly 86497 found its way into my collection some months back.