Bernd D

Out of the book "Das Offizierskorps der Schutztruppe f?r Deutsch-Ostafrika im Weltkrieg 1914-1918" by Maillard and Schroeder.

Bernd

here a picture I found yrs ago and found photo on foreign winners of austrian golden bravery medal site!

Awarded Austrian golden bravery medal for boxer reb. as member of 2nd batt. 2nd Ostasitisches Inf . Regt. medal bar seems to consist of Prussian gold MM cross China medal and Gold austrian medal!

Wish I had the bar!!!!

Pauly got the MEZ 1.

Bernd

May I introduce: Max Hugo Spahn, MEZ1, MEZ2, Saxon Honor Cross with Swords, Saxon Friedrich August Medal (war merit) in silver.

Bernd

Gentlemen,

Claudio?s comment, above, raises a question, at least to me, that a couple of previous posts were working towards. Specifically, were there ?official? (issued by the government) bars to this medal, or were all bars, as in the case of the 1870-71 war medal, private purchase items; and as such, unofficial?

If there were, in fact, ?official? issue bars, could someone kindly point out which of the already posted examples would qualify?

Thank you,

Wild Card

There were no bars handed out by the governement. Only the medal itself. It was the same like 1870-71, for GSWA or the colonial medal. All bars had to be purchased.

Bernd

Does this one make sense? I have always had some doubts.

No. This makes no sencse. Just fantasy.

Bernd

Hi Daniel, it was the campaign medals I meant, China and South West Africa in this case

Christer

Christer,

it will not be possible to list the campaign medals for China and Southwest Africa. The rolls are not complete, too much are missing, and it makes no sence to list 10.000 or 20.000 names. It is the same with the non-combatant medals.

The only way to find out who the owner was is to look at the war decorations.

The rolls for the colonial medal will be available in one or two years. I finished it already but I have my reasons to wait. It is nearly complete only a few, mostly navy, are missing.

Bernd

Some excamples of different manufakturers.

[quote

One more question, if I may. Am I to understand that the same policy (above) applied to the China, Colonial and SWA bars as well?

Hello Gents

I have seen a lot of battlebars recently, mainly the ones that 'the club' has been adding to medal bars

I have also seen a few on ebay recently for example:

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...A:IT&ih=019" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...A:IT&ih=019</a>

Does the ebay battle bar look good?

I am always a bit cautious when there seems to be a lot floating around but I aint no expert on these and the only battle bar I have is a METZ on the 1870/71 Kriegs Denkmunze.

Also whilst on the matter of battle bars I noticed in Nimmergut #3180/1 a battle bar with subtitle "nur an Englander vergeben" which translates 'only an Englander assign' What is the meaning of this? the obvious that these were awarded to Englishmen?

Thanks for looking

Rob

Rob,

most of the battle clasps on ebay are fakes. Just like the one your link is pointing at.

Your METZ is very fine.

You find more informations about "nur an Englaender vergeben" in this post "GSWA Medal with bar KALAHARI 1907, New book"

Bernd

Now here's something interesting: Theodor von Bomhard died after 1911, indeed, but quite a number of years after. By pure chance, when looking through the Heer 1944 ranklist, I noticed that he is still (!! ) listed among the Generals zV!

By far the oldest one of course, he still had the right to wear the uniform of Art Reg 7. Wonder if he could at 103!

I found in Feldgrau.net this sentence

"On 6 April 1939 General der Artillerie a. D. [bayern] Theodor von Bomhard celebrated the 80th anniversary of his enlistment."

The BMVO3x looks good to me. I don?t think there is a problem with it.

I have a problem with the battle clasps. The combination is not possible (Marines/Army) according to my knowledge. And I don?t like the first two once. I have no problem with HOPHU.

Bernd

For better understanding I will try to explain the rules after 1914.

You could wear peace- and wartime decoration together, like the bar before.

Each time you received a higher class (peace or war) you had to return the lower one.

Exemptions from the rule

1. You got the MVO/MVK with X during different wars you were aloud to wear both, for example a MVO4x in the Colonies and a MVO3x during WWI or a MVK2x for GSWA and a MVK2 with Crown and X

in WWI.

2. When you got the Officers Cross you kept the MVO3 on the bar, but when getting the MVO2 you had to return both.

3. When you die your heirs had to return the decorations. There was also the possibility to buy it.

That?s all.

Only a few of the recipients of MVKx did not return it when getting the higher class. It is all written down in the rolls. There is a note when you got the higher class and returned the lower. Also you see in there that all got the decoration on the ribbon for war merit (Kriegsverdienst) first and afterwards the one on the normal war ribbon. A few got a second award on the ribbon for war merit and returned the other one.

Only for 1866 and 1870/71 you had to return the MVO when getting the MMJO. Not in WWI.

Oberst aD Oskar von Grundherr zu Altenthan un Weyherhaus?

But I did not know that holders of the BMV4XmKr had to give that BACK when they got any BMV3X-- didn't the Crown make it permanent, like a Prussian Red Eagle Order with Crown?

BMV3X's mit Krone 17.9.17

BMV3X 20.10.16

BMV4XmKr 11.11.14

Yes Rick, it is him. The crown did not make it permanent like the REO.

By the way, this poor guy received three MVO?s with swords during WWI. Unfortunately he had to return two of them.

Also, the beamter ribbon is in first place, which leads me to believe that he earned a lower grade of the regular version first.

They all got the decoration on the ribbon for "Kriegsverdienst" first.

Wasn't the Ludwigkreuz also supposed to have been returned if any MVK/MVO was later awarded? I've seen Ludwigs and MVKs on bars, too.

Noooooooooooooooobody was paying attention, after 1918.

Nothing is impossible

Apparently not all of them.

First of all it is just a ribbon.

Second you could buy the the decoration at a jeweler.

Who took care after the war? Nobody.

Nice bar, but not correct.

The wearer received two different MVO/MVK during WWI. The first one was on the ribbon for "Kriegsverdienst" which had to be returned when he got the one with the war ribbon.

There were quite a few civil servants who got the MVK1x/2x for "Kriegsverdienst" and later on a MVK1x/MVO4x with war ribbon. All of them eturned the lower decoration.

Nevertheless very interesting.

Now, it is available in Germany at the Namibiana Buchdepot.

Here is the link http://www.namibiana.de/index.cfm?action=V...amp;itemid=2294

They show some pictures and the index.

Nah, I took too long and missed my chance.

H?sken of all people had one on his list for ages and ages and ages.... I waited.. and waited...and hummed... and hawed...

Then I saw this book had come out and I thought... go get the clasp you fool....

Of course... it was gone....

Dont mention this award to me ever again.... :-(

It is still worth reading with a lot of new information.

He never got a Bavarian MVO.

Bernd