Ceallach

Phone # please.

There is a lot of interesting items on that particular auction site lately. There is a posthumously awarded 1916 and Black and Tan medal for 15,000 sterling

Hi Brendan,

Any information on who the posthumous recipient was ?

An Ceallach

Some other insignia being offered by the same seller :-

The latter insignia commemorative trip to Philadelphia* USA by an Irish G.A.A. football team

*Thats what the cracked bell puts me in mind of, it sold for Euro 18.00

Kevin in Deva.

Hi Kev,

The badge commemorates the campaign led by Daniel O' Connell for Catholic Emancipation and the 100 th anniversary of the passing of the Catholic Relief Act of 1829.

An Ceallach

Gentlemen,

Possibly an Aeronautical Engineers Association badge (Ae.E.A)

Formed in mid 1940's in the UK as a union.

Regards - An Ceallach

Gentlemen,

An update on a previous discussion re 1916 "restrike", back in the day !

Post #94

To illustrate the observations in my previous post #81. The two officially named & numbered 1916 medals, typical for the series compared to a potential restrike from new dies. See Post #94 for images.

Ceallach

Post #81

<i>The unusual elements I would note are (1) whereas "Seachtmhain na Casca" appears precisely between 9 & 3 o'clock on the other 1916 medal's I own or have observed, in the case of this example the lettering extends substantially beyond both of these reference points; (2) the definition of the flames and to a lesser extent the rays are a remarkable contrast to the sharp detailing on the other 1916 medal's I refer to in (1) above, and (3) the ribbon suspension ring is of the larger type.</i>

The Macken medal, courtesy Paul Murphy & The Partridge medal, to be auctioned in the near future as noted elsewhere on this thread.

Ceallach

Whytes April 16, 2011 auction, Lot 241 highlights a 1916 medal #403 to M. McElroy, that has the same elements noted above and would tend to support the idea of a late "restrike". It is my understanding that no others have been issued since this.

Lot 241

1916 Rising Service Medal and 1966 50th Anniversary of the

Rising Medal, officially named to Cumann na mBan member

Mairead McElroy

by descent to present owner

Mairéad (Margaret) McElroy was born in Tyrone in 1886, the daughter of James and

Margaret McElroy. The family moved to St. Mel’s Terrace Drumcondra and later to

Richmond Road where her father and brothers worked in the carpentry trade. She took

part in the 1916 Rebellion as a member of Cumann na mBan. She was elected

treasurer of Sinn Féin in 1945 and was one of the plaintiffs during the case which

Sinn Féin took against the Attorney General relating to the ownership of the funds of

the party during the 1940s. There is a quantity of correspondence and material

relating to Mairéad McElroy held by the National Archives, relating to the court case

and also raids by the Irish Free State Army in 1923.

€5,000-€7,000 (£4,400-£6,100 approx

In addition this medal could be another example of an officially named/numbered medal outside of convention as the recipient appears to have survived after 1941. See Post #80 extract below.

Post #80

Officially named & numbered medals were also issued, post 1941, to those who were deceased prior to an application being made. For example a posthumous award was made to Jack Kavanagh (Wexford IV) who died in the 60's and for whom an application was made in the 70's by a family member.

Ceallach

An Ceallach

Will be very interesting to see the hammer price - a sign of life or a dead cat bounce ?

Regards - An Ceallach

McElroy 1916.doc

I know a couple of people who handled it and all said it was the larger post 1924 patttern size, not the earlier version.

I assume that this discrepency was brought to the attention of the auctioneers ? Wonder what their position was ! They should be held to account here and perhaps invited to equitably recitfy the situation. Time for a rogues gallery ?

Regards - An Ceallach

What is the badge size difference ? Did anyone get to measure it ? Was the Adams cap badge approx 6 mm larger in diameter than a 1922 all ranks pattern cap badge ?

Regards - An Ceallach

From my collection.

MMG 3rd. Class

An Ceallach

MMG 2nd. Class from my collection.

An Ceallach

At the request of a fellow traveller, images from my collection.

MMG Ist. Class

An Ceallach

Hi Ulsterman,

No First Class, of this type, were ever awarded - this example one of ony a few in existence.

The only First Class (design variation) ever awarded was to a Trooper Anthony Browne in the UN Congo Mission.

A small patrol of Irish soldiers under Lt Kevin Gleeson had set out to examine a damaged bridge near Niemba when they were attacked by 200 warriors. Gleeson was forced to order his men to open fire as they got to a small hill, but they were quickly overrun, killing about two dozen of their attackers. Some of the soldiers managed to scatter into the bush, and one of them, Trooper Anthony Browne, won Ireland's highest military award for bravery that day, the Military Medal for Gallantry.Browne had a chance of escaping but he fired his sub-machinegun at a group of Balubas attacking Pte Tom Kenny, who was one of two survivors of the 11-man patrol.Trooper Browne's body was recovered in 1962 in a special Irish Army operation.

Regards - An Ceallach

A recent addition...........Ireland - Military Medal for Gallantry First Class.

An Ceallach

A recent addition...........Ireland - Military Medal for Gallantry First Class.

An Ceallach

Gentlemen,

Word on the street that 1916 fakes abound on the fair Isle ! Any comment.

An Ceallach

Gentlemen,

There could be a problem with the named/numbered 1921 Service Medal currently on Ebay.

The medal awarded to a recipient of that name has a different number in the research information available to me. I have asked the seller to post an image of the medal reverse and have also asked that he confirm the number stated - alas to no avail.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A:IT&ih=016

An Ceallach

Suppose an image would be helpful...Sleeper medal

An Ceallach

Gentlemen,

From the annals of the strangest - a 1916 Sleeper Medal ???? or whatever........., certainly takes the prize for flowery provenance ! Reportedly sold for Euro 9,800 + 15% hammer. I can only assume that they know the location of the other three. The couch may offer a clue. Any fellow traveller among us with further information ?

See Lot 583, Auction May 26, 2008 at www.ashgrovegroup.ie

"A very rare Easter 1916 Sleeper s Medal made by Hopkins & Hopkins Jewellers Dublin Assay 1934 9ct Gold. Presented to Thomas McMahon William St Nenagh for Special Favours . (1? diameter).Guide - ?5 000-10 000. Reputed to be one of only four one of which has never before been seen at auction. This medal was the property of Thomas McMahon Nenagh Co. Tipperary who died in 1985 and who passed the medal along with a pocket watch to his nephew with the words Mind this shortly before he died. It is 9ct Gold assay mark 1934 and made by Hopkins & Hopkins of Dublin (a famous Dublin Jewellers who also made the Sam Maguire Cup). Thomas McMahon was a very good friend of Eamon de Valera with whom he regularly met in The Carmel Hotel when de Valera passed through the town. In fact when the hotel was being refurbished in later years the couch they used to sit on was passed to Tommy and it remained in his house until his death. (Thomas McMahon is referenced in the book These Chains by Ger Lewis). Thomas McMahon was a scholar and responsible for bringing the first Trade Union to Nenagh. What part he played in 1916 remains unclear. He never spoke of it. After his death the medal was shown to a surviving Republican Veteran who was very shocked upon seeing the medal. He held it in his hand and stroked it. He knew what it was for he knew it had been given out but had never seen one. He would only say it was a Sleeper s medal given for special favours and was one of only four. For weeks afterwards this elderly man would walk 3 miles to the house to see the medal again."

Regards - An Ceallach

Any update on an 'Irish' forum ?????????

Regret to advise that a request was turned down.

An Ceallach

Any update on an 'Irish' forum ?????????

Regret to advise that a request was turned down.

An Ceallach

Kevin, the pin has the 1966 hallmark (which is the same symbol as the pin) on the back. According to the grandson of the man who received it ,it was "issued" in 1966 possibly along with his survivor's medal and was only given to Boland's Garrison. The only other one I could find (see previous post)was attached to a 1966 medal from another Boland's mill garrison participant. I have no proof at all that this is in fact correct. It could be 2 plus 2 equalling 5.

Hi,

I believe it to be the case that the tie-pin was presented to surviving members of the Bolands Mill Garrison in 1966, and that it is the memento referred to in the following extract from an invitation letter, in my collection, to survivors issued by Bolands Limited -:

To this end, the Directors have the honour to invite you to the unveiling by His Excellency, President de Valera, on the afternoon of April 15th, of a Memorial Plaque which is being placed on the wall of the Bakery by the Company. The Directors have also decided that in order to mark the occasion in a fitting way, a small presentation should be made to the President, and in addition, that a memento be given to each surviving member of the original Garrison.

These silver tie-pins have the "Sword of Light " hallmark (1966). A fitting gesture for the surviving participants.

I believe that the auction lot you reference is Whytes, April 2006, for the Fullum Group.

Regards - An Ceallach

You guys DO realize that it is possible/logical to strat NEW threads on unrelated topics rather than one enormous thread which takes so long to download that I can go away and shave and come back to type this and it still hasn't finished downloading all the pages?

Hi Rick,

Could we have our own wee forum, maybe. Kev in Deva, thought it would be a good idea in the past. That way the different topics on Irish militaria could be kept together, and perhaps increase better topic selection for posts. Having to trawl through the bigger sea invites expediency. Just a suggestion.

Regards - An Ceallach

Hallo Paul,

there are no awards for Good Conduct or Honorable service in the Irish Defence Forces.

The Good Conduct Medal issue was stopped because of the adverse effect it was creating when being awarded.

The criteria was just too open to abuse, many felt it was being awarded to people who were very friendly with the people making the recomendations, it seem to go to a lot of Company Headquarter personnel and Military Police.

I hope Ceallach would be good enough to post the complete list contained in "The Medal Society of Ireland journal # 11 & 14 lists the officially named recipients for 1988 & 1989 respectively - ALL 120."

Hopefully then it will be possible to break down the percentage of Privates, Corporals, Sergeants, Company-Sergeants, Company-QM-Sergeants who were getting it.

Kevin in Deva.

Hi Kev,

1988 awards - Rank (number of awards) : SPO (1), RSM (8), Coy.Sgt. (17), CQMS (4), BQMS (6), RQMS (2), WO (2), Sgt. (11), BSM (5), Bty.Sgt. (1), F/Sgt. (1), SQMS (1) & Sqn.Sgt (1). Total = 60

1989 awards - Rank (number of awards) : RSM (3), Coy.Sgt. (17), CQMS (7), BQMS (5), RQMS (2), WO (1), Sgt. (9), BSM (2), Bty.Sgt. (1), F/Sgt. (1), CPL (2), CPO (1), SCPO (1), TPR (1), PTE (6) & GNR (1). Total = 60

1990 ?

Regards - An Ceallach

Gentlemen, does anyone have any thoughts of the officially named and number 1916 medal for sale at the moment and the posthumous numbering system.

[

Sold for 12,000.00 sterling + 17.5% auction fee = 14,100.00. Who said the market had peaked !!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/norther...and/7248550.stm

Regards - An Ceallach

To illustrate the observations in my previous post #81. The two officially named & numbered 1916 medals, typical for the series compared to a potential restrike from new dies.

Post #81

The unusual elements I would note are (1) whereas "Seachtmhain na Casca" appears precisely between 9 & 3 o'clock on the other 1916 medal's I own or have observed, in the case of this example the lettering extends substantially beyond both of these reference points; (2) the definition of the flames and to a lesser extent the rays are a remarkable contrast to the sharp detailing on the other 1916 medal's I refer to in (1) above, and (3) the ribbon suspension ring is of the larger type.

The Macken medal, courtesy Paul Murphy & The Partridge medal, to be auctioned in the near future as noted elsewhere on this thread.

An Ceallach

I hope Ceallach would be good enough to post the complete list contained in "The Medal Society of Ireland journal # 11 & 14 lists the officially named recipients for 1988 & 1989 respectively - ALL 120."

Hopefully then it will be possible to break down the percentage of Privates, Corporals, Sergeants, Company-Sergeants, Company-QM-Sergeants who were getting it.

Its a pity really that the issue was suspended, many soldiers were only going to get a service medal or Service Medal with bar for reasons of being unable to volunteer for overseas with UN, or service medal and bar, and a U.N. medal and an Irish Commemorative U.N. Service Medal.

Kevin in Deva.

Hi Kev,

Hopefully the scanner will be sorted out shortly and I will get those lists uploaded.

While purusing through Dail reports ( I know, should be busy doing something else), came across the following. Seems there may have been a third year issue.

D?il ?ireann - Volume 416 - 20 February, 1992

Written Answers. - Good Conduct Medals.

Mr. Ryan Mr. Ryan

103. Mr. Ryan asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline (a) the number of good conduct medals that have been issued since the inception of the award and (2) the current criteria for issuing these; and if he will make a statement on the review of the issue criteria currently underway.

Minister for Defence (Mr. Wilson) John P. Wilson

Minister for Defence (Mr. Wilson): In the period 1988 to 1990 the good conduct medal was issued to 180 non-commissioned officers and privates.

In 1990 a review of the criteria for the award of the medal was initiated by the military authorities because the limit on the number of medals which could be issued annually ? 60 ? gave rise to a perception of invidious treatment. Certain proposals for the replacement of the good conduct medal by a new award have been drafted and further consideration of these in consultation with the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association is envisaged.

Regards - An Ceallach