Boudica

I've taken a couple of pics of the medal naming for PC Duff. The small scratch on the 'L' of Luff is much more prominent to the naked eye than it looks here(plus the natural patina marks), making it look like a 'D' when glanced at. Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to respond and help with this medal mystery, so it's no longer a mystery. 👍

Thank you so much, Odin! And I've found him on page 144 in the book. I wasn't so much as barking up the wrong tree, but not finding any trees to begin with. 😄 I'll see if I can post a photo of the naming tomorrow. However it's probably irrelevant, as on looking at the medal with my light-up magnifying glass, I can now see it's definitely an 'L' for Luff not 'D' for Duff. 20 years of medal research and I didn't see it!?! 🙄 Probably because the place I bought it from usually gets its facts right, and there's a little scratch/metal tarnish mark which looked at in passing with the naked eye, makes it look like a 'D'. And Duff seems more likely as a surname than Luff. I can't thank you enough(and Mr. Eyre). I have a place to start from now.

It's pretty standard practice in most archives these days. If they had found his name I fully expected to have to pay for all copies and info. The National Archives work the same way, free enquiry and then a quote if records are found. I've used the National Archives a lot over the years, but it is frustrating at times, that even with a quote it's buying blind. There's been a crossover recently with some MoD records. A WRAC lady I'm researching, who served the end of WW2 and out in Malaya after the war, no longer has her records at the MoD sites as they've been moved to the NA in some new project/idea/collection, but whether that will still cost the £30 fee usually charged by the MoD records, or it will be quoted on the size of file, I'm unsure. I should soon hear about that one next month. I think most archives are realising that they can collect quite a bit of cash in this way. I also suspect it's why a lot of records sets haven't been digitized...or have been, but are being held back.

I've had a reply from the London Metropolitan Archives. (Very fast to reply, and thorough, for a free enquiry 👍). My Mr. Duff was not found in the surviving records they hold. They checked the personnel files box and warrant book. They did suggest that he might have been a Special Constable, which weren't entered into the main police warrant book. On the one hand I don't know much more about my chap(yet), but it raises an interesting question over the amount of 1887 Jubilee Medals awarded. Simon Eyre's book shows it was a bit more than the 900 as listed in the Medal Yearbook, so it would be interesting how many Specials were awarded medals that are not officially listed, or are on a long gone file. So, I will go back to plan A, and look a bit more in depth at my 1881 & 1891 targets and at the very least may have it narrowed down from that. In some ways I almost like the slight mystery and anomaly here.

Yeah I've clicked through on that, and it takes you to the Facebook page, which leads nowhere as there's been no activity there since 2021. It's unlikely anyone is answering the messages/emails sent from the page and now doubtful of someone having any of the sort of info I would need, as a closed museum is unlikely to have all the knowledgable staff still there. Anyway, not being confident of any answer from that avenue, I've sent an enquiry through the London Archives using their enquiry service on their website. Looks like it can take a while to get an answer, but looks the most likely place to get any info for now. On the website is states if they have the records needed it costs £86 per hour for them to be found/assessed/copied(or whatever they do to extract the info), which compared with some other 'hired help' in the history world is about on par with other archives. All I really need is a confirmed first name and either a date of birth and/or place of birth to take it from there. Oh well, a case of being patient and waiting for their answer. I will move on to researching some other medals in the meantime and put PC Duff back into the 'waiting room'. 🙂

I just had a look for the City of London Police Museum for contact details and it appears to be closed...and looks like closed for good, as several of the links from google searches lead to dead ends and error pages. Their facebook page hasn't been updated since 2021. So it looks like the archives will be my only option.

Thank you both for your replies. I will try the museum first. Yeah, it could be his records were the ones the station dog ate, or something. 😄 Especially as he isn't in the book I have. The Duff you picked on the census is one of the ones I have as a 'possible', as the dates and info fit the potential criteria, other than being described as 'superannuated'(pensioned off) on the occupation side, so may not have been involved in 1887. Anyway, contacting the museum and/or archives will be on my 'to do' list. Sorry for the delay in replying. I only now just got notified of the replies.

Hi, I have in my collection a 1887 Victoria Jubilee Medal for a City of London policeman. The medal is engraved to: 663 G. Duff. I'm only now turning my attention to researching this particular medal and I'm having trouble finding any records online. I've got a copy of Simon Eyre's great book on the City of London police Jubilee medals but my guy does not appear anywhere in the lists in that book. An anomaly it seems. I've tried to do the usual research technique of narrowing down searches within census, and haven't hit anything solid with that either, a couple of possibilities, but I fear a bit too old, perhaps. Does anyone know if the City of London warrant books will be available on somewhere like Ancestry soon, like the Metropolitan Police have been? Thanks to health problems I'm unable to travel anywhere, so are the London Metropolitan Archives worth contacting with the enquiry, or will they just tell me about types of files in CLA/048? I don't want to pay for a service if it then turns out they don't even have the record for my policeman. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I refuse to give up on Mr. Duff just yet...hoping I eventually find out who he was in some way.

That does sound fascinating, Chris! A real mystery on that one for the dates. I just reread all the info on the medal in my trusty Medal Yearbook, and it says, as we probably all know, that it was issued to wives and mothers of servicemen who died in WW1. Then a second version was introduced in August 1940 for WW2 widows and mothers..so that would have had a GeoVI cypher. It would seem the first QE2s were introduced for the Korean conflict. Looks like you might have an interesting oddity there.

Those memorial crosses are always really nice items. Hmm...even if the family acquired the cross in the earliest year of the QE2 cypher on the medal, that would be 1953...so that's still a long time after WW1. That's very interesting. Unless it was missed at the time and the family became aware that the soldier was entitled and then applied. I think the Canadian crosses were first instituted in 1919, and wartime paperwork was always prone to mistakes and missing parts. I know some veterans didn't apply for their WW1 medals until the 1960s and one case I know of was the 1970s. If it was applied for later, they might not have produced GeoV cypher crosses by then and used the most current one. Oh well, it keeps us lot on our toes, trying to work it all out.

I've been aware of several plaques being issued between 1920-1922-ish. As far as I know it would have been based on their death being a result of their service, so in effect a 'Died of Wounds' type of case. One of the soldiers I'm currently researching, won a Military Medal, but died in 1920. He has a CWGC gravestone, although he's buried in his local cemetery in Yorkshire. His records, thankfully, survive and in those, there are many letters from his parents with accompanying proof of death, and asking for his medals and plaque. It seems it was like pulling teeth to get them issued, but he was entitled to them, even though he'd been discharged and had been working in an ordinary job for a couple of months after the end of the war. I ordered his death certificate and he died of a bacterial heart condition as the result of wounds that never healed and continued to fester and continued to get infected. So in effect he Died of Wounds. From what I've seen(others might know the 'official' line) a death certificate and/or other information was needed, but if it were proven as a result of service, then the soldier qualified for a plaque and a CWGC gravestone.

Thanks ever so much for the input, and the impressively fast responses to my queries. This is a fascinating forum. I'm sure I'll find myself logging in here again soon, if only to lurk and read and learn about other medals/orders that I don't normally look for.

Really nice to see the medal in different ways, Claudio. Would there be different ribbons for different 'types' of recipient? Much as the military and civilian versions of MBEs and OBEs vary slightly. Or is the ribbon different on the first one due to the type of bar worn with it? Very interesting stuff, anyway. What sort of price is the medal worth? I have no intention of selling it, as the person who gave it to me, has since passed away, but I'd be interested to know, roughly.

Many thanks! It's nice to know what it is, finally.

I've collected British medals for many years but rarely other ones, and not German. I was given the medal shown in the photos a few years ago and came across it in my collection again the other day, but I can't find any reference for it from online searches. I know it's related to Wurttemberg from the inscription on the reverse, but I don't know the name of the medal, what it would have been given for, or to whom? Any information on the medal would be greatly appreciated. The obverse is gilt and enamel and the reverse is gilt(not shown that well, due to my poor camera) The wording on the reverse across the left-to-right arms of the cross is: "Furchtlos u. treu" There's 1914 and 1918 on the upper and lower arms. And the wording around the oval centre is :"Wurttembergisches kriegs erinnerungs leichen." The medal measures about 4cm across (1.5"inches) (I hope I've posted this in the right place on the forum, apologies if I haven't.)