Cartaphilus

While not listed for sale a Military Order of Savoy, I'll try to obtain a Colonial Order of the Star of Italy. It will be a good addition to the African campaigns medals that I have, I think.

Ok, my doubts are resolved.

Dear friends, I have a pair of doubts about the Prussian Military Honor Medals (Preußische Militär-Ehrenzeichen 2nd and 1st classes).

- For winning the Military Honor Medal 1st class (the cross), the soldier had to win before the Military Honor Medal 2nd class? Or could win outright the First Class?

- The 1st class (cross) was awarded only to NCOs and the 2nd class (medal) only to soldiers? Or a soldier or a NCOs could win both classes?

Thanks for your answers and your valuable time.

Thanks for your quick answer, Seeheld.

Dear friends, some notable German generals of World War II were awarde with these order during the imperial period, like Bruno Loerzer or Konrad Zander. Do you know if this Order was a military deoration awarded for war acts, or a civil decoration for peace time?

Thanks.

Erhard Milch would also be upset that you think this spange was a fake... As he wore it on his ribbon bar...

Dear Alan, according to my files, Erhard Milch was awarded with 3 foreign decorations with dark blue ribbon or sash: Order of White Rose (Finland), Order of Yugoslavian Crown and Order of Merit (Chile). In you photo of his ribbon bar we can see four dark blue ribbons on the lower bar. Do you know what can be the 4th foreign blue award?

Hello dear friends.

Many years ago when I became interested in the history of the awards, I tried to get pictures of the characters who were decorated with the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross and the Order Pour le Mérite.

Unfortunately, I could never finish the job because I have not been able to find:

- A good photograph (not a drawing or an engraving) of Prince Frederick Karl of Prussia with both Grand Crosses.

- An image of Tsar Alexander II with the Grand Cross of the Pour le Mérite.

- A good sized image Bogislav Friedrich Emanuel von Tauentzien with the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross. I could only find a really tiny in which you could barely see the medal around his neck.

Do any of you have a picture in good condition of these characters with these decorations?


Thank you very much.

Yes, the medals of the photos could be perfectly these thuringian decorations.

Now we need to find what is the 4th medal on Oskar and Eitel Friedrich's bars.

I'll try to find images of these medals, I don't know them.

Thanks for your help.

Hi Rick. Do we know the identity of the soldier in this last beauty picture posted by you?

OK Rick, all is now clear.

Thank you so much.

By the way, in the second photo Santa Claus seems to wear a Militär Ehrenzeichen 2nd Class with non-combattant ribbon, isnt't it? Do you know if it was necessary or mandatory to win the 2nd Class for obtain the 1st Class, like the Iron Cross? I remember seeing medal bars with only the 1st Class cross, but now I'm not sure.

Greetings from Spain.

Hello Rick.

I was asking about the wearing of the three long service prussian medals for soldiers and NCOs during the imperial years, I wondered if an NCO who had more than one (cross of 15 years and medal of 12 years, or medals of 9 and 12 years, for example) could show them on his medal bar or ribbon bar, Or if there was any restriction as it was in the Third Reich with Wehrmacht Long Service medals (only 2 medals or crosses on a medal or ribbon bar, and only in some combinations).

Thanks.

Hello Everyone,

Having nearly finished EK equivalents for Junior Officers,I just need a Saxe-Meiningen Medaille "Für Verdienst im Krieg" mit Krone in Bronze not Zinc (Medal for Merit in War with Crown) if you have one...,

I thought I would try a put together a wee collection of long service awards (not the Landwehr) from the Imperial German States.

This is what I have so far...

Dear Alan (or any GMIC friend), during the nazi years the use of these medals on medal bars was restricted to one or two medals, only under certain combinations. In the case of Prussian Extended Service medals, how were officially displayed on medal bars when a soldier had more tan one medal? Do you put only the most senior? Could you put two or three simultaneously?

Thank you very much for your answers.

I thinkthat he's really wearing the star if the Grand Cross, but without the neck cross (collar). The Grand Cross set was formed by collar, sash and star. You could wear the collar and the star, or the star and the sash, but It is proved that in many cases only the star is wearing. There are potos of Ludendorff with the star and the sash that prove that he received the Grand Cross.

I thought so but it's odd that he denies himself wearing the higher grade of the Red Eagle and the neck badge which was very striking and a popular medal to wear, although perhaps not with the other 'heavy' (superior) neck orders he is wearing in the photo.

Maybe on this big photo you can see if he is wearing the First Class of Grand Cross breast star.

In any case, it seems that if an award of first class consisted of two parts (decoration on neck and chest), it used to take only one of the two parts. For example, Ludendorff usually wears the Star of Commander of the Order of Hohenzollern House in the chest, but I've never seen him with the Commander Cross around his neck. Surely he chose to wear the Star of the Grand Cross of the Red Eagle Order, but not the Grand Cross around his neck.

This photo is dated on 1923, during the Beer Hall Putsch trial. It's not a pre-date of the Grand Cross award.

In Vol. 2 of Neal O'Connor's series on aviation awards, there is a Sanke photo on page 154 showing Max Muller with the Member's Cross w/Swords. There is also a photo of Fritz Kosmahl on page 148 showing him with a button hole ribbon with crossed swords to differentiate it from an EKII ribbon.

Dear Newman, is some of these the potos that you're talking about? The first is very small, and in the second

I think that the Member Cross of House Hohenzollern with Swords can be the fourth award on this last photo, but it's also too small and bad quality.

QUOTE(Dave Danner @ Apr 13 2007, 18:40 ) ←

Prussia:

Also worth mentioning is the Member's Cross with Swords (Kreuz der Inhaber mit Schwertern) of the Royal House Order of Hohenzollern. Although technically not the highest ranking enlisted award of Prussia, it was a much rarer honor in World War I. Only 16 were awarded. A disproportionate number of these were to aviators, which probably reflected the fact that enlisted aviators were racking up the kills that were earning their officer counterparts the Knight's Cross of the Hohenzollern House Order.

If I remember correctly, 17 of these were awarded, if we do not forget the Jewish person that was erased from the list in Third Reich". A aviator as well, but I cannot remember his name at the moment.

Dear friends, sorry for revive an old post but, as I read these words of Dave I've noticed that I've ever seen a photograph of one of these 16 or 17 Prussian soldiers wearing this decoration. Is there photographic evidence of the Hohenzollern House Order Kreuz der Inhaber with Swords?

Helo dear friends.

I'm investigating what decorations were awarded to the children of Emperor Wilhelm II when they were young. In the old photographs can be seen frequently and clearly the Black Eagle Order, Grand Cross of the Red Eagle Order (usually around the neck, almost never the star to the chest), and the Grand Commander Collar of the Hohenzollern House Order (almost never the breast star).

Examining the medals bar, always appear the Red Eagle Order 3rd class with Crown and the Prussian Crown Order 2nd class, with the Káiser Wilhelm I Centenary Commemorative Medal. And sometimes can be seen other medals. Can anyone help me to identify them.

First image of Prince Adalbert. What may be the fourth medal?

Second is Prince Eitel Friedrich. His fourth medal looks different to Adalbert's fourth medal.

Prince August Wilhelm. His fourth medal is different from Eitel, but do not know if it is the same as that of Adalbert's.

The mighty Prince Oskar. His last medal looks the same as the last medal of August Wilhelm. And his fourth medal may be the same fourth medal of Adalbert, but I'm not sure.

Do you have any idea of what may be these medals awarded to the young princes in the years of peace?

The size of the image is not too big, but we can see perfectly Göring with e the sash and the Grand Cross (little in the photo) of the yugoslavian Order of the White Eagle, during the visit of Prince Regent Paul to Berlin. This Order is not included in the list of Göring's awards posted in this topic. Raeder and von neurath wear the same sash, and Brauchitsch the blue sash and Grand Cross of the Order of Yugoslavian Crown. The unknown German diplomatic on the right wears the Order of Saint Sava. Hitler, as was usual, didn't receive any foreign award from his visitor.

These two were not awarded to Prussian soldiers during the world war except in very peculiar circumstances. SOME MEz1, but I know of NO MEz2 awards 1914-18:

- Military Honor Medal 2nd class (Militär Ehrenzeichen 2 Klasse)

- Military Honor Medal 1st class (Militär Ehrenzeichen 1 Klasse)

Hello Rick.

These few Militär Ehrenzeichen First Class awarded during the Great War, were a lower or a higher decoration that the Iron Cross Second Class?

Greetings.

The breast star that Ludendorff is often photographed wearing looks like a Black Eagle but on close examination, appears to be a Red Eagle order with swords.

Dear friends, was really Ludendorff awarded with the Grand Cross of the Red Eagle Order withe Swords and Oak Leaves, or with the First Class?

For all I know, all the Grand Cross of the Order belonging to German generals of the First World War had been granted before the war, together automatically and the granting of the Order of the Black Eagle (von Kluck, von Bülow, von Eichhorn, von der Goltz, von Hindenburg, von Heeringen, von Tirpitz, von Holtzendorff, von Koester and probably some general or admiral else I am forgetting). Maybe Otto von Bellow is the only case of Grand Cross of the Red Eagle Order awarded during the War, in 1917.

I have documented other cases of Stars of Red Eagle Order with Swords besides Ludendorff (Arnold von Winckler, Hermann von Francois and Ernst von Oven), but I think that all are First Class and not Grand Cross.

Hello Claudio.

My Bronze Medal hasn't the three letters at the bottom. I bought both medals some 8 or 10 years ago to a shop of my confidence, Anticopresidio from Firenze. Do you think that is a good reputation seller? What is their opinion of this store among Italian collectors?

Greetings.

Hi Claudio.

I'm a por photographer and my camera inst' too a good machine, but...

This is my Italian-German Campaing medal, back side. Marks of Lorioli-Milano and De Marchis can be seen.

And these are the MVSN and Russian Campaign CSIR medals:

Finally, I don't understad well where must be a "Z" in the Medaglia al Valor Militare. At the bottom of the medal? of the Crown?

Greetings from Spain.

No, unfortunately most of the decorations of this man (and documents) disappeared at the hands of his grandson and heir, who had very different political ideas than his grandfather. Instead of selling the whole parts separated because he thought he could get more money for them separately. I could see the set at the time sold for parts, and among them were the Order of the German Eagle and several Spanish political honors such as the Order of Cisneros and the Order of the Yoke and the Arrows.