Gerd Becker

OK, I'm way behind on my "learning" of cyrillic. We have two nuts, two types:

Moscow Artists' Collaberative-Mirror Back & Nut marked

Monetny Dvor Is the "Money Mint" Moscow, or Leningrad?

Still trying to figure out where the Leningrad Mint fits into the scheme?

And I'll ask again........ does anybody have and/or know of any of these that were made in "real silver"?

Thanks!!!!!!!!

Thats a tough one, Rick. Normally "Monetny Dvor" stands for Moscow Mint and "Leningradskii Monetny Dvor" stands for Leningrad Mint. But you find "Monetny Dvor" marked pieces made in Leningrad mint too, OGPW 2nd classes for example.

Yep, a little bummed over this, but it's my own fault. In studying all his photos (the guy who had the set) the 2 stars I received are the ones he showed, but I checked the RB's, not the RS's. We shall see what he has to say.....

(I will confess to still being outrageously pleased with everything else and the matching orders book!)

I have noticed that on his Website, but thought, he just switched the pictures

I hope he knows, where the right ones are.

I am really curious, how he might got the first ORB. These two are in my little database:

14.522 22.02.1941

18.674 09.08.1941

so yours should be somewhere about Mid 1941. Any info about the units, he served in? Who signed the VoG-Document?

Gerd

Gerd,

No. there was no re-issue Red Banner.

The awardee simply wore the screwback under the first ribbon.

Rusty.

Thanks, Rusty. Thats probably the case. I guess, its still possible, that he had a reissue additionally. I have seen quite a lot with a s/n under 25.000, so why not this one too.

Gerd

Awesome group, Rick.

I guess, he had a reissue on his medalbar, right? That would be great to find that one.

Gerd

There are supposed to be the first 1000 Glory 3rd class and about the first 500-600 Glory 2nd class with border reverse.

Here is an Order of Glory 3rd class with border reverse, for sale on a dealers site currently in a group(with screwpost base Red Star, Excellent Artillery Man badge...) for 6700 Dollar

No, Rick, its not a Red Banner its a Red Banner

Its not exactly the same, the understroke under the 1 isn?t there.Its possible, that the S/N was changed to fit in a group, but the piece is definately a T3V1 in my opinion, when i only go from the obverse.

Can you see any traces, that it has been changed, Rick? The patina is not even on the reverse, i.e its missing in the area of the S/N.

Gerd

I'd like to add that one thing that you cannot discount. When the paperwork comes in, there can never be any doubt as to what went with whom. No doubts as to completeness and originality. it's a shame not all collectors value those little details. It's a shame that the time will probably come when we will no longer have access to these archives. I for one would grab everything I could get, while I still can.

Thats, what i do, Rick. I have research for the most of my higher orders and for the most of my groups. I don?t care, what is in that group and if i already have 10 Types of every order or medal, as long as its interesting or researchable or in the best case, both. I will have even more of my single pieces researched, as it is not only, that you get information about the recipient and why it was awarded, but your order gets back to life again and if you are lucky, you also have a face to go with it.

You know, i collected Imperial Minis, but i never could afford or was lucky enough to get a traceable Mini-chain. But with this soviet awards, there is so much to research, it will be enough for all my life, i guess. I only really started to appreciate collecting, since i began with Soviet Awards.

Gerd

I think, its fine. A T3V1 in my opinion.

Gerd

Just found this on ebay, sold as a copy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SOVIET-BADGE-HALHINGOL...1QQcmdZViewItem

This one is but they will become better, no doubt.

Here is the full Unit History of the 216th Rifle Division:

216th Rifle Division

Started forming on 29. September 1941 near Kharkov with:

589th Rifle Regiment

647th Rifle Regiment

665th Rifle Regiment

656th Artillery Regiment

690th Signal Battalion-became 811th Signal Company in December 42

The 216th Rifle Division formed up in just a few weeks, and was assigned to the reformed 38th Army in Southwestern Front in October.From mid November 1941 the 216th was in the South Front, attacking the northern flank of the German Force in Rostov and driving them back to the Mius River in the early winter. During this offensive began south and north of Kharkov, the 216th was under the 18th Army in the South Front. The 18th Army retreated into the Caucasus ahead of the German advance, and from July 1942 until August 1943 the 216th fought under the Caucasus Fronts. It was under the 47th Army along the Black Sea coast from August 1942 until March 1943, and in September the division provided cadre to help form the 2nd Naval Infantry Brigade out of Black Sea sailors. From late March until August 1943 the 216th Rifle Division was in the 56th Army of the North Caucasus Front, fighting on the Taman peninsula. At the end of August the division was transfered north to the 51st Army in the South Front (after 20. October 1944 renamed as 4th Ukrainian Front) and then, after the liberation of the Crimea in May 1944, shifted north to the 1st Baltic Front in June 1944. During the pursuit after the destruction of the German Army group Center, the 51st Army (they were in the 51st since August 1943) advanced into Lithuania and the southern baltic in the late summer of 1944, and by late October 1944 had been transferred from the 51st Army to the 4th Shock Army in the 1st Baltic Front. At the end of 1944 the 216th RD went to the 2nd Belorussian Front, to the 124th Rifle Corps. It remained in that Corps for the rest of the war, shifting from th 49th Army to the 3rd Army and finally, in April 1945 to the 50th Army in the 3rd Belorussian Front, fighting in East Prussia and Pomerania, near the Baltic Coast of Germany.

(Source: Charles Sharp, Soviet OOB WW2)

Great ORB and very cool research, Rick. I am jealous.

Gerd

Don,

i had the opportunity to handle Davids badge last weekend and i am conviced, its an original as is yours.

Gerd

Hi Andreas,

its 2.746.173

Can you see it on the photo?

Gerd

How about this one? The medaillon seems to be double-punched(?) and is noticable thicker, if you look from this perspective. The medaillon is 2mm thick on the top and others, i have checked (ealier and later ones) have medaillons up to 1,5mm thick. There also is a seam in the middle of the edge of the medaillon. I don?t know, if its that unusual, but i thought, its interesting.

From the date, I think that is the mass bestowal of annual long service awards for the MMM ... and the OPW1 suggests he was a war invalid, by 1985.

The name is Vasily Mikhailovich Shtibel'.

Thank you, Rick. Handwriting is not my thing, at least not yet, i hope.

Gerd

oooooooo Lippe-Detmold! Very nice bar and despite the fact that it's tough to find mounted; many collector's seem to overlook this small cross.

I agree. Although that is a very nice designed cross imo.

Nice additions, Ed. The 1870 bar is the best, i have ever seen

Gerd

That's a really interesting little group. My bet is that the MM is a delayed award for wounds, though at the same time it's probably a combined 10 year and "hey, he was wounded in the war and didn't get anything else" medal. This one would be interesting to research, I think.

Dave

Thanks, Dave. This can?t be a complete group, right? Shouldn?t there be at least a VoG or a Victorious Labor in GPW?

Gerd

It does not give a good feeling to the medal.

Same here. Its not a sharp strike and the ring looks too big. And why is it bronze?

Definately OGPW, 1st class. Notice traces of gold on star.

Yep, its a 1st class, definately. I like it, that it has wearing traces All the others, i have are mint.

Thanks, guys. I am very grateful for this little group, especially as both are variations, which i was looking for

Gerd

and the decorations, which go with this group.

Any help with the name of this soldier is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Gerd

The document for the Military Merit Medal, 1948 issue, awarded on the 18. December 1951

Hello everyone,

this was surprisingly in my mailbox this morning. Its a gift of one of our members here (Thanks again, you know who you are) and consists of an unnumbered Military Merit Medal with Document, awarded 15th of December 1951, probably a Long Service award and an 85 Issue OGPW 2nd class. I tried my best, but the name was not to translate for me so far except his first name Vasily. Any help is most appreciated.

Here is the OGPW document