Gerd Becker

Nice one, Darrel

What do these go for nowadays, also the gold and bronze version? The version without swastika was very underappreciated for obvious reasons. But though, they seem to become scarcer lately. A lot of people, who disregarded them in the past, are now interested in them.

I think, its an important badge of the area. It was often worn proudly additionally to Combat-Awards(especially WW2) and obviously had a certain esteem to the soldiers.

Gerd

Very nice, Peter. These are new to me as well I allways avoided everything from the Iron Crosses series with swords attached. I have seen some Spangen with crossed swords, but they looked very weird to me. I wonder, if something like that existed as well.

Gerd

Paul,

i have to agree with Les. Better safe than sorry.

best,

Gerd

Thanks John,

That can't be my guy you're right. Im still sorting the letters they are in a mess and I get to it as time permits so I will have a lot of other info with all the feldpost stamps etc. I am sure we can get a bead on this guy eventually.

Best, Sal

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Sally, make sure, you bring some or all of them to Germany next year. Maybe i can translate a few for you. I am sure, they must be most interesting.

Gerd

Absolutely fantastic I guess, some collectors would kill for this star. Do you know his other awards? Has it been researched?

regards,

Gerd

Yes, also like the enamel ribbon bar very much

Nice assortment of ribbons in this thread

Christophe, to answer your question, these are not common, to say at least. Especially on mini-groups i haven?t seen them too often.

Gerd

Man, if i would have known that earlier. I had a beautiful trifold-EK 2 not long ago, which i sold to an EK-collector.

But you have one now, thats important. And a nice one

Wow, thats a nice 1st type

Thanks for sharing, Wild Card

Holy Cow, Jacques. Thats the half of the Legion Condor

Amazing information, Andreas

Ricky and you are a the masters of interesting and informative posts

Gerd,

my main collecting field are the iron crosses! But I'm very interested in the RAOs-

indeed is the painting of the medaillon a little stange,and I'm shure this is the reason why it's not already sold!And I didn't find just one eagle matching to this one......I'm no expert,but I would do it like at the Skat-the first thought is the right thought!

Micha

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Thanks, Micha. Its the same here. I really like the construction, but the medaillon is indeed strange.

Lets see, what the RAO-Experts say....

best,

Gerd

Well,I've seen it,too-would it be possible that the medaillon was replaced or exchanged because of a damage? Or it might be a"later" piece from the 20ies?

I've got the big "Nimmergut" in my hands,but I didn't find anything that would match....

Micha

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Micha,

the painting on the medaillon is a little sloppy, isn?t it? Or were the 4th classes not paintet as carefully as a 2nd class, for example?

Gerd

Hi Antti,

i can?t tell you the maker, but i am quite sure, its a last Model, 1854-1918. As it has the stippeled armes, i guess, its a later piece, maybe 1900.

I hope, Andreas will solve the riddle.

Gerd

Another solution, if you are worried about the items being sold and broken up is to will to collection to a museam in Germany.

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I know one

Seriously, i would not engrave the pieces. What if you make up a very nice display with everything behind glass and make the history of the group and your efforts to research it visible somehow, maybe with an inscripted plate. So, if someone is intended to sell one or more pieces, he will definately be aware, what he is doing there and hopefully will think about it twice.

Gerd

I assume from the website address that it is in Russian. My computer cannot read Cyrillic so...

what goes on there? Is that some sort of wholesaler for all the fakes out there?

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He sells them officially as Reproductions, but several sellers on geman ebay sell the medals as originals. The orders are too obviously Repros to be fooled. Here is the Screwback ORB, they sell, for example.

Gerd

Hi Marcus,

i know it, but thanks for the warning. With a little knowledge their orders are quite easy to identify, but their medals are scary.

best,

Gerd

Oh, boy, how i love to read comments from Rick to this topic

The high prices will destroy the hobby, because there will be noone left, who collects because of these insane prices and the fakes on the market. I agree, Imperial may be underappreciated, but definately not anymore underpriced. That may seem so to someone, who is used to deal with TR-Collectibles prices, but like Wild Card pointed out, they increased dramatically in the last 5 years.

I also collect for the joy of handling and looking and researching a medal and not about the Dollars, its worth. For my taste there are too much "Investment"-Collectors out there, but they will be surprised, when in 30 years noone wants to spend money on that crap, because there are not many collectors left, who could explain him, what exactly the difference between a real one and a fake is.

With soviet-awards i have chosen a collecting field, where i will never have ALL orders and medals, even if i win the lottery. So i am happy with the more common stuff. Of course i don?t mind to own a high soviet order, but its not a must. I am happy about every tiny bit and also about every information surrounding my awards.

Also, collecting Imperial and Soviet has tought me more things than seeing the difference between a 3rd and a 4th class Red-Eagle-Order, but much more. Due to communicating with other collectors i have made friends (and i MEAN friends) all over the world. My english is much better than it was in the beginning. I have learned so much about german and russian history and military in general.

all the best,

Gerd

Kim, thats an awesome Website, thanks a million for the link.

Rick, I would love to see more docs, if you have.

best,

Gerd

That falls right into the first long service awards on 3 November 1944 range-- I've seen numbers (many, many numbers) between 113,XXX and 199,XXX all on that date. Not all to be sure-- Colonel Maguta's TWO in the 125,XXX range were: one 3 November long service and one 7 November actual award...

but within this range chances are good for a 20+ years service award.

Research could show amazing or boring... and no way to tell without doing it!

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I have these two in my database:

133.595 19.10.1944

142.920? 24.01.1945

so mine is, like you said it, from November 44.

Nevertheless, i will let it research, but not yet.

Gerd

"ONLY" have 14 Red-Banners

I have only 4 so far. Here is the latest addition, i thought, you might like to see it. Its nice with PERFECT (really!!!) enamel and a nice patina. Serialnumber is 136.023. Now, that i can compare a Type 3 to my Type 4?s, i can definately see, they are different.

Gerd

This one, Christophe :

Rick,

thanks for bringing up this points. You are right, you have to be careful with the spread information.

How many Red-Banners do you have?

best,

Gerd

There are three variants of the fourth type:

T 4 V 1: moscow mint; produced ~ 1951 / 52

s/n range 357.215 - 363.666

s/n range 381.214 - 400.192

T 4 V 2: moscow mint; produced ~ 1953 / 1955

s/n range 401.803 - 422.311

s/n range 444.446 - 448.888

T 4 V 3: leningrad mint produced ~ 1954 / 1957

s/n range 364.900 - 379.504

s/n range 423.629 - 442.636

s/n range 450.253 - 564.937

Maybe we can find a picture to each s/n range?

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Thanks, Andreas. So mine are obviously one T4V2 and the other is a T4V3, procuded at different mints.

Can i use that for my website?

Thanks again

Gerd

Thats a very pretty award, Kim. And obviously very rare too

I love the red enamel

Wild Card,

you are right, of course, they are for sure a significant factor for the price increase and they have bought pieces before for crazy prices, but that can?t justify these insanity. My comment wasn?t only directed at you, but to many others, who said similar things lately. Of course, there are several other factors, who lead to the prices increase.

Its only a matter of time(even if it takes decades), that the market will break down, as only a handful of collectors will be able to afford something at all. I am happy with common stuff, but i wouldn?t mind to add some rarer Orders to my collection. I am only a small-budget collector and the most collectors don?t have that much money available for their hobby.

best,

Gerd