Gerd Becker

Nice bar, Chris. I would agree, its probably a Typ 2 Spange, but still

Excellent explanation, thanks, Rick.

That Red-Banner with workers mark is most interesting

You have some real nice Variations, my friend

I would vote for Saxon because of the EK-Device

Hi everyone,

i have these two Orders of the Red-Banner Type 4 and i have noticed differences in shape and mintmark and a few other details. Weren?t they all made at the Moscow Mint? Doesn?t the left one look more like a Type 3 Variation 4?

Every comment is welcome.

Thanks in advance

Gerd

I never get to any shows beyond driving range of New England. And there are no "shows" in New England. 

I think prices have overbalanced as well, particularly for things like Red Stars and Red Banners that are NOT in documented groups and NOT researched. After all, there were close to 4 MILLION Red Stars, and almost 600,000 Red Banners!!! There is not even the "bullion excuse" most often used for Lenins (equally NON-RARE, simply materials have scrap value).

Sure, individual variants may be rare or scarce, but the average run of the mill "on its own" ORS or ORB should NOT be where they are.

As in any other collecting area, higher prices to start up keep beginners out. Which LIMITS the market, rather than expanding it. It's that old Goose And Golden Egg thing. Ever increasing numbers of ever better fakes are certainly doing to Soviet what has happened to Third Reich stuff.

I remember 10 years ago when a loose "eh" Red Banner could be had for 35 dollars, and sort through the pile to pick your own. There is no REASON why a loose and "nothing" serial numbered (presumably) mere post-war long service one (not researched, alone) should now be 100 dollars plus and everything else up from THERE.

It's disheartening. I'm just glad I got what I did when I did!

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I agree completely, Rick.

Well i bought a Type 3 Red Banner a few days ago for 81 Euro

CollectRussia has a Nakhimov 2nd class for 28.000 Dollar

Hi Rick,

When I want a good shot of nostalgia, I just take a trip down memory lane through an old “Igor catalog”; hence, like you, I have often pondered this same question; and may have some (sort of) good news.

First, did you, by any chance, attend the recent OMSA convention in Atlanta? The reason I ask is that, in my opinion, there was the best selection of Soviet material there that I’ve seen in a number of years. Still not up to the good old days; but a big improvement.

Now for the bad news - you knew that was coming. I would guesstimate that, since eight to ten years ago, prices on low end pieces have increased by three times while the higher end pieces have increased by five. At the same time (good news), I was told by a knowledgeable source that these prices are now bringing some material back onto the market. Unfortunately, more than ever before, this material is going back to The Motherland and once there, it’s out of sight and circulation for the foreseeable future.

So, there it is as I see it.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

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Wildcard, i am not convinced. If thats the case, why are, for example, the two awesome groups on CollectRussia still available. At least one of them is a once-in-a-lifetime group, so where are the whealthy Russians now? I hear everybody saying similar things lately, but i think, the demand over there does not correspond to the crazy price increase in the last years.

Just my two EuroCents...

all the best,

Gerd

What noone seems to understand is, they are both evil 

 

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but both good too

What noone seems to understand is, they are both evil

And THAT is what "perfect" is all about! 

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Exaclty that came to my mind, before i scrolled to your reply. Absolutely amazing. You have a one-of-a-kind group there, fantastic

Wow, TRIPLE Lifesaving-Medal. This was for sure a Lifesaving-Maniac

"Ahhh, damnit, noone drowning today"

This is simply spectacular Don. I have NEVER seen a ONE PIECE backing like this where the outfitter's "label" information was woven right into the BACKING.      He must have cut it off in sections, wasting the blank parts in between.

NEVER seen anything like this one-piece backing "label" before-- really great!!! 

AND a pristine mint medal bar, as they should be. 

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Yeah, thats right, its woven into the backing Wonderful little piece, Don

Andreas, most interesting. Thanks for taking the time to post this

Excellent. Surprising results, this is, why research allways pays

Thanks, Rick

Rettungsmedaille on bar belonged to Hans Geissler, U-440 Kommandant.

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Very nice, Michel. You don?t see this one often mounted, congrats.

Gerd

On the reverse, as is often the case, is pencilled "Nikolai Ivanovich" and the telephone number "559-69-88 Cmdr. Div." Whether this was Tojhonov or some other high KGB official of the "Nomenklatura," private numbers from the never publsihed telephone directories were an EXTRA "reward" to the "truly worthy," and an indication of personal favoritism and patronage.

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I didn?t understand this. The telephone-number was on the back, so that Comrade Drutsky can keep in touch with his KGB-Buddies?

Well, i want to research all of my numbered awards, just because i can. I love to know the history behind the awards, i have. Even if its a simple Military Merit Medal, i don?t care, as long as i can add a face and the story, this Order or Medal(on his owner) went through.

Even if i will be able only to afford the common stuff, i do enjoy it. And right, you can be lucky and find a real treasure, which belonged to someone important.

Well, i have these two:

1.672.076 02.10.1944

1.897.624 03.11.1944

So, i guess, its also from one of these days.

Gerd

One more generation of the 'fighting' von Etzels.  My mother is on the right.  I discovered this photo on WAF!  My mother was amazed, he had others which he also shared.

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Great photo and fantastic story. I have seen, when you discovered it on WAF.

Is there any reference, which lists the "Berufsgruppe" and "Berufsart"?

Yup, April or May 1945 from that 1,2XX,XXX range.

What I'd like to know is what has happened to all the partial groups with a couple of awards, the Orders Book, and very often a random couple of campaign and postwar jubilees all to the same guy, which used to FILL tables at  militaria shows in the mid 1990s?

Where are all the documented groups? I'm not talking Marshals of the Soviet Union, but lower officers, NCOs, and the like? Back in "Igor catalog" days, there were PAGES of that kind of offering, with half a dozen awards still together.

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Please, Rick, its depressing to hear that. Why did this dumba** only start that late to collect these? I should have started with Soviet stuff instead of Minis, although they were nice though.

Gerd

I got this info from Andreas:

10th Rifle Division

Units: 62, 98, 204 Rifle, 30 Artillery Regiments

-Regrouped from eastern to western front by Lenin Order, 1920.( Nr. 1920?)

- Raised at Vladimir, Moscow Military District (FHO), September 1939

- Tallin with 8th Army, June 1941

- Riga, June 1941

- Estonia, August 1941

- Krasnoye Selo, September 1941

- Leningrad with 8th Army and 42 Armies(42th Army?), September 1941

- RVGK (FHO), April 1945

- Order of the Red Banner

Thats very moving, Brian. Some little mistakes in that sentence, i guess, it should read: "Dich hab ich geliebt und lieb dich noch heut, dich werde ich lieben in Ewigkeit"

You have a most interesting family and you are fortunate to have so much Things of them. But i am a little lucky too, as i have the KVK 2nd class with X, what has been awarded to my mother.

Gerd

And the reverse side:

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Thats also a wartime Red Star. After my Database it should also be from Begin to Mid 1945.

@Rick: Thats just fantastic. I would love to own a Korean-War awarded example. I have seen a wonderful Red Star for Korea (S/N 3.799.XXX) on ebay, but this morning it was gone

Gerd

Fabulous job you guys, finest thread on wound badges I've ever seen.

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I agree, the best thread to this topic, i have seen so far