Jerry B

Originally started by Leigh Kitchen back in 2008 , this sub-Forum has had some good posts - unfortunately, once the

immediate posts had been completed it sank down out of sight. Well worth being revived - and Jerry, a chance to

show your exceptional collection of RWF material. Some super items - particularly with the uniforms.

I feel that , wiith your knowledge on the subject, that you could enlarge on some aspects of your collection and post

them as articles. This would be of great interest with the various Commemorative events happening this year. Mervyn

Mervyn.

Thanks and I am more than happy to add more detailed posts on aspects of the regiment if there is the interest for it here. To be honest I was not sure if the interest was there, as until you, my posts have not appeared to garner any attention.

The RWF are involved in a project to commemorate the 1914 Xmas truce as they were one of the units involved and I can find out more details on this. I know there will be an exhibition in France and that will then tour cities in the UK that have expressed an interest in it.

Either that or it's identical twin.

Paul

The same one by the sound of it, even down to the wire loop on the reverse.

A 2nd DERBY MILITIA (CHATSWORTH RIFLES) OFFICER'S POUCH BELT PLATE in sheet brass embossed with arms comprising shield, crest, helm, ducal coronet, supporters and motto CAVENDO TUTUS, 15cm h

Raised in January 1855 and designated The Chatsworth Rifles on 22 May the same year, it subsequently became the 3rd Battalion Derbyshire Regiment and was amalgamated with the 5th Battalion in April 1891.

Condition report:

Some polish residues and with holes for mounting but lacking the screw posts, instead on the reverse a central soldered wire loop for suspension. Not damaged or repaired, the defects reflected in modest estimate

Circa 1890 officers bullion & silver collar badges for the red tunic. Lovely condition and not often seen outside the regimental museum. The details on the dragon is superb and it is the early version which looks more like a Griffin and has no loop in the tail, whilst the flames of the grenade are the wider type when compared with the later versions. Also shown are some later collars and a cap badge with the loop in the dragons tail and the narrower flames.

One of my favourite shows Jerry.........

A good selling point mon ami. Listen very carefully, I will say this only once.

It is broad arrow marked with an O so 1942 and as it is an austerity version 40 pattern, it would be 3rd or 4th quarter of 42, as this type was introduced at that date.

The liner system looks wrong for one of such an early date, more like the post 1925 Vero system on removable split pins, though the shape of the helmet does look to be the pre Wolesely (circa 1900) type.

Hi, is that a sleeve band or a patch on the left arm?

Hi Chris,

A black armband for mourning for King Edward VII, seems most likely as the tunic would date to circa 1911 and he died in 1910, though it might be for an unknown friend or relation of the owners and worn at any date until he became a major.

Major Godfrey Percy Burrell M.C. MiD. 4th Bn. Hampshire.

D.O.B. 18th March 1881 at HIgh Street, Alton, Southampton.

Son of Harry Percy Burrell (profession: brewer) and Gertrude Evelyn Burrell nee Crowley.

1st Bn Hants....2nd Lieut.......................06/01/1900

1st Bn Hants....Lieut.............................18/01/1902

1st Bn Hants....Resigned........................08/03/1905..............Total 5 Yrs 61 Days

4th Bn Hants....Capt.............................05/08/1911

4th Bn Hants....Major............................27/06/1917

4th Bn Hants....Relinquished (Ill Health)....07/05/1918..............Total 6 Yrs 275 Days

4th Bn Hants....Major............................31/07/1920

4th Bn Hants....Relinquished Commission...29/03/1922..............Total 1 Yr 241 Days

.................................................. ..................................Total Service 13 Yrs 212 Days

MID gazetted, 5^th 4^th 1916.

MC gazetted, 17^th 4^th 1916.

In 1917, it appears that Major Burrell applied to be relieved of his appointment as Assistant Commandant at No.11 (Southport) Aircraft Acceptance Park, (Royal Flying Corps), as he apparently resented being under orders of a Captain [Hellyer] and wished to be returned to his Regiment.

He seems to have had a protracted period of illness during the years covering his service.

There also seems to be no detailed mention of his M.C. housed within this file at the N.A.

4th Bn., Hampshire R. — Maj. G. P. Burrell,

M.C., relinquishes his commn., 29th Mar.

1922, and retains the rank of Maj.

And the listing for his Military Cross but not the citation

4006 SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 17 APRIL, 1916.

Awarded the Military Cross.

Captain Godfrey Percy Burrell, I/4th Battalion, Hampshire Regiment (T.F.).

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../4006/page.pdf

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/32654/supplements/2580

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27813/pages/4634/page.pdf

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27398/

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/29536/supplements/3663

Full account of campaign in Middle east with Hampshires and other units.

Mid for actions in this period, EUPHRATES OPERATIONS, 26th JUNE

T0 25TH JULY, 1915.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/29536/supplements/

heres Lt Riddifords medal index card and his citation for the MC and the link to the gazette entry

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30645/supplement/4878

Amazing that you found his citation. I tried and failed to find one for an officer of the Hampshires, I found the notification but not the citation.

Thanks, Jerry. My old collection was MUCH better, including a Waterloo Medal ( 2nd.battn,), QSA/KSA pair, and a seven medal group that included medals for the 1898 Sudan Campaign, a QSA, and a 14-15 trio.

I had no choice but to sell at that time; at least I made a significant profit.

Now, I'll likely have to pay 2500 pounds or more for a Waterloo Medal; I paid 750 pounds in 1999! The weak dollar isn't helping, either.

I have done it in the past, sold items because I needed the money, some of which I miss having, but in the main, no regrets and of course you have the fun of finding new items.

I only just realised I know you from two other forums Bob. I am also a new member here so good to see other familiar posters.

PS the London Gazette is free to view, but finding award citations is very hard in my experience. I found my dads notification for his MiD, but not the citation.

A nice Grens collection Bob. I have a couple of items for them, but no medals and nothing as nice as what you have.

Very nice Mevyn, thanks for the history and for showing these uncommonly seen full set of buttons and OSD badge. I'll keep an eye out for them in the sales section.

A good pic of the RA Sgt's arm badge in wear. Looks to be for his wedding and on a 49 pattern BD blouse.

Some documents for him from the net covering details of his service and about his passing.

Jerry,

I hope I can get the net back on!

As do I Jock.

The paint is very thick on it and perhaps is a repaint. You have it in the hand, so easier for you to tell. A good lid and wartime examples are starting to fetch higher prices these days.

Thanks for going to the trouble of taking the extra pic.

Scots guards I think.

A good pick up Jock.

The first one, the MKIII looks good with the net. Interesting it has a 1940 dated liner in it, though the liners are the same as for MKII's so why not. The early MKIII's have a textured khaki green paint which was soon switched to the brown seen on the second one. Not sure what colour the first one is.

Here is my example, 43 on the liner, but nothing visible on the shell and it has the early textured khaki green paint.

Hey Jerry,

yes of course the button!

Silly me!

It can be seen here;

http://postimg.org/image/hlbufeen1/

Royal engineers it is.

Thanks Kris, I would have guessed at Engineers. It looks good and not something you see often, so hard to say much else. Hard to evaluate such as this, as they would be really hard for most collectors to display.

What is on the buttons Kris? Do you know what it is for?

Further to the matter of the blue or red diamond, some photos from my collection

Do they show any correlation datewise with their being red or blue?

Another from my collection, not Navy but Army Tankers NCO arm badge. Certainly post 1920's in this case.

A full set of papers - showing a man's record of service are always of great interest.

Thankyou for posting these. Mervyn

Hi Mervyn,

Rare to find so many had survived for him, as mostly all you can find is his MIC. Among them are some interesting snippets, his being admonished for being absent overnight, his being given 28 days field punishment no.2, the amount of battalions he served with, his being at Gallipoli and then being POW fron the end of the Somme battles, his cause of death so soon after his return and the attempts by his regiment to clarify how that had ocurred. I was very lucky with this medal, as most, as you will well know, often have very little to be discovered.

Some WWI medals can be a real delight in terms of research, as was the case with this example.

That's an interesting observation Jerry. I went trough my collection of RN cap badges and I have noticed that I have many KC badges with a blue diamond, and some with a red diamond. All badges with QC have the blue diamond, which would support your remark.

I don't remember where I picked the information up from, but as far as I am aware it is accurate. Though like all such things there was probably somewhat of an overlap as old stock is used up.

Officers tunics.

Early 20th century Volunteer Battalion officers undress scarlet frock. Unnamed and sadly missing its shoulder boards.

Major C.J.L Lewis, served in the far east as 2ic to 2/RWF after previous service as 2ic 4/RWF.

Captain/Acting Major J.R.O.Williams, attached to HQ 30 Corps Mil S.

Brigadier J.R.H. Orr CBE, MiD, served with the Indian army from 1928, with among others the 11th Prince Albert Victor's Own Cavalry (Frontier Force) including in North Africa, also with the 6th Mahrattas as aLt. Colonel until he joined the RWF in circa 1948 and then on attachment to the Kings African Rifles in Kenya where as a Brigadier (70th BDE) he was mentioned in despatches and also for which he was awarded the OBE and then later the CBE.

Officers collar badges.

There are two main variations, the earlier type has a beast that looks like a griffin and has no loop in its tail, the later type has a dragon with a loop in its tail. It is not known when the chnage took place, but most who have an opinion think it took place circa 1920 when the spelling chnaged from Welsh to Welch.

Early type.

Later type

Also come in bullion.

And a sweetheart conversion.

I have more examples, but these suffice to show the variations to be found.