Jerry B

Some detail shots of most of the other helmets.

A 2059 marked MII no.2 1C, maker marked JSS & Co. Joseph Sankey & Sons. 1940.

MKII RO Co Rubbery Owen Company, 1939.

MKII BMB Briggs Motor Bodies, 1939 with MKI liner. Has 10th St. James scratched on the brim

WWI MKI or war office pattern, no markings surviving.

Police MKII with variant stencil thought to be for a WPC. ROCo 1939, Helmnets ltd 1938 MKI liner

MKII 1940 with textured exterior paint, named with serial number for Glynne Parry Jones, 6th Bn RWF

MKI with textured paint and 1917 type liner with the added rubber ring. Named to owner JH Schwarz.

A few that were not included above.

Home guard mkii with textured paint.

Post 53 Royal Engineers officers SD cap.

1940 dated pill box cap, incorrectly badged to the 8th Kurkha rifles. It came with the badge, but is uncertainly but probably for the Royal Malay regiment.

#5 from the left is the Chishire Regiment.

Hello Jerry,

Welcome to the GMIC!

What do the trousers for this uniform look like?

Hi Paul, the trousers. They are quite badly mothed in the crotch area and on the lower area of one of the legs. they came with the tunic and I assume they belong together, though unlike the tunic they are not named.

Jerry - after the 1st WW had ended, many families wanted to remember relatives who had been killed. Companies set-up many different

styles of small memorials - where the soldier's details could be added. Many of these were sold by post - with the details already added.

I think you will find that this was something similar - and the listing of countries at the end would allow it to be sold in all of them. You will

note that apart from the Union Jack there is no Crown or, mention of a specific country. Mervyn

Mervyn,

You are correct I think, the name has been added to a pro forma plaque.

Thanks Tony and Jock Auld.

Here it is shown with the more commonly seen form of memorial plaque and a Victory medal to show the size of it. The other plaque and medal were from another member of the SWB, private John Davies 44388, about whom I could find out many of his details, from the CWGC and I have visted his family memorial on which he is commemorated.

A great war memorial plaque for Private Wm. Williams of the South Wales Borderers. Impossible to find out for whom it was made to commemorate him by his familly. I have seen one other of this type for a member of a Scottish regiment and a paper version of the same design. It is in its original frame, though the paper backing has been removed to see if it had a makers mark on the back, which it does not.

There are more than 20 W Williams who fell while serving with the regiment during the war.

Name, Rank, Service Number, Date of Death, Age, Regiment / Service, Service Country, Grave /Memorial Reference, Cemetery / Memorial Name

WILLIAMS, W Private 39398 25/02/1917 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom I. I. 14. SUCRERIE MILITARY CEMETERY, COLINCAMPS

WILLIAMS, W E Private 12079 04/02/1917 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom V. H. 17. A.I.F. BURIAL GROUND, FLERS

WILLIAMS, W H Private 67794 03/11/1918 18 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom North of Church. RHUDDLAN (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD

WILLIAMS, W P Private 18852 31/03/1916 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom III. H. 21. ST. PATRICK'S CEMETERY, LOOS

WILLIAMS, W T Private 40731 15/08/1917 28 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom XXII. P. 15. ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY

WILLIAMS, WALTER GEORGE Private 22493 02/03/1916 28 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom V. A. 58. BETHUNE TOWN CEMETERY

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM Private 4/13281 09/11/1917 25 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom E. 1085. KARASOULI MILITARY CEMETERY

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM Private 12652 09/08/1915 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom Panel 80 to 84 or 219 and 220. HELLES MEMORIAL

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM Private 31474 09/02/1918 28 South Wales Borderers United

Kingdom Panel 65 to 66. TYNE COT MEMORIAL

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM Private 14084 30/04/1917 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom Panel 16 and 62. BASRA MEMORIAL

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM Private 200917 09/06/1917 29 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom III. C. 150. BAILLEUL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION, NORD

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM Private 13022 03/12/1917 22 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom Addenda Panel. CAMBRAI MEMORIAL, LOUVERVAL

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM DANIEL Private 14520 25/07/1916 24 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom X. G. 33. CATERPILLAR VALLEY CEMETERY, LONGUEVAL

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM HAMILTON Private 25424 21/11/1917 19 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom Panel 5. CAMBRAI MEMORIAL, LOUVERVAL

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM HENRY Private 14682 30/07/1916 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom Pier and Face 4 A. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM JOHN Private 10655 18/02/1917 31 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom Pier and Face 4 A. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM JOHN Private 20903 03/03/1916 22 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom III. D. 35. LE TOURET MILITARY CEMETERY, RICHEBOURG-L'AVOUE

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM MITCHELL Private 16417 01/07/1916 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom Pier and Face 4 A. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM THOMAS Private 16911 30/05/1918 South Wales Borderers United Kingdom SOISSONS MEMORIAL

Hi Tony,

I have a ceramic memorial plaque for a Wm. Williams of the South Wales Borderers and there are more than 20 possibles for him, just from the regiment, never mind for the name. Sadly I will never know for whom it was meant to commemorate. I'll start a thread showing it as I do not wish to take over this thread.

Jerry, you must have a very tolerant wife

The MKII Brodie pictured top right has A2059 stencilled on it, do you know the meaning?

Tony

Hi Tony, indeed I do. I also have other nations headgear as well as these, and some uniforms, etc.....

No idea on the stencilled A 2059 insignia, I thought it was perhaps for Anglesey Home Guard, while others have suggested an unknown factory guard.

My British headgear collection.

I have a few more that are not included.

1930's from the width of the puggaree band. A good example of the type.

A very good group and great that you could find out his history.

Thanks for adding the details Tony. The link works fine for me, but that often does not mean it works for anyone else.

There are 4 Robert Adamson's listed on the CWGC website.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=1

Hello Jerry,

Welcome to the GMIC!

What do the trousers for this uniform look like?

Thanks all.

I'll take some pics of the trousers over the weekend and add them here.

A very interesting document to possess from such an early period. Always amazing when early paperwork survives.

A few from my collection, mostly for the Welsh regiments, the SWB, the Welsh, and the RWF.

Only the 15 star medal from a trio to Ralph Astbury of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers. His papers confirm he was a Gallipoli Veteran and then later was captured at Serre.

His papers are quite detailed listing him as having served with a number of BN's of the RWF before he was listed as missing on the 13/11/1916 and then later was confirmed as being captured.

I have about 8 pages of his records but will only show his MIC and a page from his records showing most of the details of his service, including mention of him being given 28 days field punishment #2. Another of the documents has him being admonished for being out overnight.

Sadly he died shortly after bing released at the end of the war, and a number of letters are among the papers from the regiment trying to ascertain from his doctor if he died as a result of his service.

"but the epalettes suggest he continued to wear it post war."...

seems a pretty big pair ! I was going to suggest a "little man" compley, but 5 Foot 10 Inces was Pretty big for back then....

Hi Chris,

It is a small tunic, as many were back then, or at least those that survive suggest that, which does fit with the evidence from other sources.

I forgot to mention that I also have the trousers to go with the tunic, though I have yet to take good photos of them. They have suffered somewhat from moths.

Regarding the dating, the type of collars were introduced in 1909, and the maker moved from the address shown on the label in circa 1911, so it fits into the period between the two dates, though he did not become a major until 1917.

A WWI PoW group in the collection, which is confirmed on the MIC and is important when collecting PoW medals for WWI.

8576 Pte. H. Hudson 2nd Royal Scots

Great to see all the POW groups and their history.

I have a split trio and there is no mention on his MIC of his being a POW, but his service records do show it, listing him as missing and then later confirmed captured at Serre by the germans.

A good straight on picture of the helmet plate might have helped on this one.

Pre WWI named officers home service tunic to a member of the Welsh Regiment.

It appears from the Collar dogs to date to circa 1909, but the epalettes suggest he continued to wear it post war.

I was able with some help to find out quite a lot of history, which is posted below, but it includes details of his wounding and the action in which that occured for which he was mentioned in Despatches, he was Bn commander for a brief period with the Welsh and also another unit during the war and late war he as at Sandhurst commanding cadets. Post WWI he was again a Bn commander with the Welch.

Lt Colonel Walter Mark Hore

Born 28th October 1883 in Belper, Derby, died 28th November 1942

Next of kin is Mrs E M (?) Hore (mother), Upton, Bagenalstown, County Carlow, Ireland.

Height 5 foot 10 ½

Single.

Educated – Frayford (?), nr Manchester. Farnboro Park (?), Aldershot. HMS Brittannia.

Joined HMS Britannia, January 1896.

Left HMS Brittannia, April 1897.

Served in China Station 1897-March 1900.

Served in Channel Squadron until Nov (?) 1900.

If passed from Militia – Yes, 1901-1902. 3rd Bn R Berks Regt.

Promoted Lt, 1902 at Crown Hill, Plymouth.

Musketry course, 1901 at Hythe.

Transport course, Quetta, September 1906.

If he has commanded a company of section of mounted infantry during a course of instruction – Yes, 1905. Poona.

Period of service:

At home, 7th May 1902-11th March 1903. East Indies 12th March 1903-28th July 1905. At home, July 1905 to 6th October 1906. South Africa 7th October 1906-(no date).

No medals or decorations.

LG 25th February 1902 – 3rd Bn, Princess Charlotte of Wales’s (Royal Berks Regt). The undermentioned 2nd Lts to be Lt. Dated 26th February 1902.

LG, 16th May 1902 - “2nd Lt Walter Mark Hore, from 3rd Bn, The Princess Charlotte of Wale’s (Royal Berks Regiment), in succession to Lt L I O Robias, promoted”.

LG, 20 January 1905 - “2nd Lt W M Hore, The Welsh Regiment to be Lt, vice C L Veal, promoted. Dated 29th November 1904”.

UK outgoing passenger lists show that he left England, 27th March 1909, on board the SS Durham Castle, for South Africa. He is listed as a ‘Lieutenant’.

1911 census shows him as resident at ‘Llanion Barracks’, St Mary, Pembroke Dock. He is stated as Lieutenant, unmarried, aged 28 and serving with 2nd Bn, The Welsh Regt.

Aug 1st 1914 with the 3rd battalion based in Cardiff, a Captain by this date.

Jan 15th to Jan 26th 1915 took over temporary command of the 2nd Battalion in the Givenchy sub sector.

On the 25th Jan 1915 during his period in command of the 2nd Welsh Captain Hore led a counter attack of two platoons of the Black Watch and one of the 2nd Welsh at French Farm in the Givenchy sub sector.

On the 9th of May 1915 Captain Hore commanded C company of the 2nd Welsh during the battle of Aubers Ridge during which he was wounded.

LG, 22nd June 1915 – Capt W M Hore, 2nd Bn, The Welsh Regt is mentioned in dispatches.

Walter M Hore married Lucy M Anning, last quarter of 1915 in Cardiff district. Llandaff cathedral

Adjutant 3^rd Bn at home, Sept 1915 to Feb 1917.

LG, 9th February 1917 – Welsh Regt. Capt W M Hore is placed on the hp list on account of ill health contracted on active service, 11th February 1917.

LG 2nd March 1917 – Capt F W Ford, Welsh Regt, to be Adjutant, vice Capt W M Hore, 28th December 1916.

LG, 11th May 1917 – Capt W M Hore from hp list is restd to estabt, 5th March 1917, with precedence next above C A H Longcroft.

LG 16th July 1917 – Welsh Regt. Capt W M Hore to be Major 3rd March 1917.

LG 21st August 1917 – Capt W M Hore to be Major, 5th March 1917 with seniority from 18th January 1917 (substituted for the notification in the gazette of 16th July 1917).

LG, 2ND July 1918 – Major W M Hore (Welsh Regt) to be acting Lt Col whilst commanding a battalion, 24th May 1918. (25^th Bn Kings Liverpool Regiment, May to July 1918)

LG, 30th August 1918 – Major (acting Lt Col) W M Hore (Welsh Regt) relinquishes acting rank of Lt Col on ceasing to command Bn, 27th July 1918.

From LG

ESTABLISHMENTS.

The undermentioned temp, appts. are

made: —

ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE.

Officer of a Co, of Gentlemen Cadets.—Maj.W. M. Hore, Welsh R. 21st Sept. 1918.

and then June 1919. much the same again

ESTABLISHMENTS.

ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE.

The •undermentioned temp, appt is made: —

Officer of a Co. of Gentlemen Cadets.—Capt. R.R. Taylor, K.O. Sco. Bord., vice Maj. W.M. Hore, Welsh R. 16th June 1919.

UK outgoing passenger lists show that he left England, 8th September 1922 for Bombay, India on the SS Margha. At the time he was 39years old and address given as St Marye Hill, Tenby. Profession – army.

UK incoming passenger list shows that he arrived in UK, 9th April 1925 onboard the SS Mandala, from India.

LG, 27th November 1928 – Major W M Hore to be Lt Col, 28th November 1928.

LG, 29th November 1932 – Lt Col W M Hore (Welsh Regt), on completion of his period of service in command is placed on the hp list, 28th November 1932.

LG, 30th May 1933 – Lt Col W M Hore (Welsh Regiment), ret. pay to be Lt Col, 28th May 1933, with seniority 27th September 1928.

Walter Mark Hore died 28th November 1942. His probate record states “of Treffgarne Hall, Treffgarne, Pembrokeshire. Probate Llandudno, 2nd April, to Lucy Mabel Hore, widow.

Marriage of Capt W M Hore Cleddau i Haverfordwest and milford gazette wed 5th 5th jan 1916

Marriage of Capt. W. M. Hore, Cleddau. A pretty wedding took place at Llandaff Cathedral on Friday. The bridegroom was Capt. Walter Mark Hore, adjutant of the third Battalion the Welsh Regiment at Cardiff (only son of the late Capt. Hore of Upton, Co. Carlo w, and Mrs Hore, Cleddau, Haver- fordwest), aud Miss Lucy Mabel Anning, eldest daughter of Mr aod Mrs Richard Anning, of Peucisely House, Llandiff, and grand-daughter of the Rev. John Price, M.A., Lianveigan Rectory, Brecon. Capt. Hore, who joined the 2ncl Welsh in 1902, succeeded Major H. C. L. Lloyd as adjutant of the 3rd Welsh in September of this year. He has served in India and South Africa, and has been at the front with the 2nd Battalion, being wounded in the head at Rue l'Epinette in May last. The cathedral was beautifully decorated with palms and lilies for the ceremony, which was con- ducted by the Right Rev. Bishop O. T. Crossley (Dinas Powis), the Archdeacon of Llandaff (the Yen. v Dr. Bloxsorne-Dav. of J. IL Buckley). and the Rev, Dt. Bloxsome-Day, of Carlisle Cathedral (uncle of the bride). The service was fully choral and was largely attended, there being a number of officers present, including Col. Philipps, oommanding Severn Defences, aud Col. illsrw c(I Elton. The bride, who was given away by her father, looked charming in a beautiful gown of soft white liberty satin and silk tulle with full court train of white satin trimmed with magnificent Carrickma- cross lace draped and finished with a bow of tulle and spray of orange blossom. Her veil of silk tulle was arranged over a wreath of orange blossom and myrtle. She carried a bouquet of white carnations, lilies of the valley, and white heather, the gift of the bridegroom. The bridesmaids were the Missas Violet Eileen and Kathleen Nora Anning (sistera of the bride), Miss Gwynedd Taylor (cousin of the bride- groom), and Miss Daphne Cockle. They were beautifully dressed in gowns of white crepe Geor- gette, trimmed with lace and blue velvet, their black velvet hats being trimmed with black fox fur and blue velvet. The best man was Captain the Hon. Wellesley Fitzroy Somerset, the Welch Regiment. On leaving the Cathedral the bridal couple passed under an archway of swords formed by officers of the Welch Regiment. After the ceremony a reception was held by the bride's parents at Pencisely House, at which there was a large attendance. Subse- quently Captain and Mrs Hore left for London, where the honeymoon will be spent. The bride travelled in a gown of sapphire blue velvet and ninon, over which she wore a black velvet short French coat, trimmed with black fox. She carried a large muff to match her hat, which was of black drawn velvet, trimmed with black fox fur, with a small bunch of shaded roses and black lace. Among the many beautiful wedding presents was a silver salver, appropriately engraved with the Welch Regiment badge, from the officers of the 3rd Battalion Welsh Regiment; a silver cigar lighter! from the officers at the barracks depot, and another from Colonel C. Phillipps (commanding Severn Defences) and Staff-Captain Adair. The presents included Bride to bridegroom, silver flask bridegroom to bride, diamond necklace and diamond ear-rings; Mrs Hore, mother of the bride- groom, silver tea tray and fitted suit case Mr and Mrs Lewis Penn (brother-in-law and sister of the bridegroom), dinner service Col. and Mrs Morgan Saurin (uncle and aunt of the bridegroom), cheque Mr and Mrs Penn, silver clothes brush: Mrs E. S. Saurin, cheque; Commander Saurin, R.N., cheque Capt. Wm. Saurin, cheque; Capt. and Mrs A. P. Thomas, silver and glass scent bottle.

Haverfordwest and Milford Haven telegraph wed 19^th may 1915

Haverfordwest Men Wounded. I CAPTAIN HORE. I We learn with regret that Captain Walter Hore, 2nd Battalion Welsh Regiment, was wounded in the head on May 9th, and was taken to hospital at St. Omer, where his wound is being attended to. We are pleased to hear that the injury is not serious and that Captain Hore hopes shortly to rejoin his regiment. Before joining the Army Captain Hore, who is the only son of Mrs Hore, of Cleddau, near this town, was a midshipman in the Navy which he left in May 1902, and became 2nd Lieutenant in the 2nd Battalion Welsh Regiment, being promoted to the position of Captain two years later.

Brecon county times, Neath gazette and general advertiser Thursday 6^th jan 1916

I Marriage of Capt W M Hore and Miss L M Anning

Marriage of Capt. W. M. Hore and Miss L. M, Anning. A wedding of considerable interest to Breconshire took place at Llandaff Cathedral on Friday afternoon last, when Captain Walter Mark Hore, the adjutant to the 3rd Battalion Welsh Regiment (a wounded member of the 2nd Welsh), only son of the late Captain Hore, of Upton, County Carlow (Ireland) and of Mrs Hore, of Cleddau, Haverfordwest, was married to Miss Lucy Mabel Anning, eldest daughter of Mr and Mrs Richard Arming, P cncisely House, Llandaff, aud grand-daughter of the Rev. John Price, M.A., and Mrs Price, Llanveigan Rectory, Brecon. The cathedral was decorated with lilies and palms and the service was fully choral. The officiating clergy were Bishop Crossley, of Dinas Powis, the Ven. Archdeacon Buckley, of Llandaff, and the Rev A. Bloxsome-Day, D.D., of Carlisle Cathedral (uncle of the bride). The bride was given away by her father. There were four bridesmaids, viz., the Misses Violet Eileen and Kathleen Nora Anning (sisters of the bride), Miss Gwenedd Taylor (cousin of the bridegroom), and Miss Daphne Cockle, and the best man was Capt. the Hon. W. Fitzroy Somerset (one of the soldier sons of Lord Raglan), who, like the bridegroom, was wounded whilst in action with the 2nd Welsh in France. The bride wore a gown of soft liberty satin and silk tulle, with full court train of white satin, draped with beautiful Carrick- macross lace down the left side of the train, and finished with a tulle bow and spray of orange blossom. Her veil of silk tulle was arranged over a wreath of orange blossom and myrtle. She carried a lovely bouquet of white carnations, lilies of the valley, and white heather, the gift of the bridegroom. The four bridesmaids wore gowns of white crepe Georgette, trimmed with lace and blue velvet, black velvet hats, trimmed with black fox fur and blue velvet, and carried black velvet muffs, lined with white chiffon and trimmed with black fox fur and bunches of white heather and roses, the gifts of the bridegroom. On leaving the cathedral the bridal couple passed through an archway of swords formed by a guard ;f honour furnished by the officers of the Wt -sh Regiment now at home. Following the Cciemony a reception was held by the parents if the bride at Pencisely House, and so nume ous were the guests that special provision had tC be made by'.the erection of marquees in the beautiful grounds of the residence. Later in the day Captain and Mrs Hore left for London for the honeymoon, the bridegroom getting only a few days' leave. Mrs Hore's going-away dress was a gown of sapphire blue velvet and ninon, over which she wore a short black velvet French coat trimmed with black fox fur, and large muff to match, and hat of black drawn velvet, trimmed with black fox fur, with a small bunch of shaded roses and black lace. The wedding presents included gifts from Colonel Marwood-Elton and the officers of the 3rd Welsh, Colonel Phillips (commander of the local defences) and his staff, Colonel Schofield and the officers of the depot of the Welsh Regiment, and Regimental Sergeant- major Lamer and the orderly-room staff at Cardiff Castle.

Wednesday 22nd of September, 1915

Collection Title: Haverfordwest and Milford Haven telegraph

New Adjutant of 3rd Welsb.-Captain W. M. Hore has been temporarily appointed adjutant of the 3rd Battalion the Welsh Regiment, and assumed duty. Captain Hore, who succeeds Captain H. C' Lloyd upon the latter obtaining his majority, was appointed captain in the 2nd Battalion in April, 1912.

Thursday 6th of January, 1916

Collection Title: Brecon & Radnor express Carmarthen and Swansea Valley gazette and Brynmawr district advertiser

LLANYEIGAN

LLANYEIGAN. WEDDING.—A pretty wedding took place at Llandaff Cathedral on Friday. The bridegroom was Captain Walter Mark Hore, adjutant of the 3rd Battalion (Welsh Regiment) at Cardiff (only son of the late Captain Hore, of Upton, Co. Car- low, and Mrs Hore, Cleddau, Haverfordwest), and Miss Lucy Mabel Anning, eldest daughter of Mr and Mrs Richard Anning, of P-neisc-lv House, Llandaff, and grand-daughter of the Rev. John Price, M.A., Llanveigan Rectory, near Brecon. Catain Hore, who joined the 2nd Welsh in 1902, succeeded Major H. C. L. Lloyd as adjutant of the 3rd Welsh in September. He has served in India and South Africa, and his been at the front with the 2nd Battalion, being wounded in the head at Rue l'Epinette last May.

Very interesting item and not one I had seen before, though I have seen other forms of air drop leaflets. The condition is great.

A very interesting new take on Yorktown and the campaigns that preceded it. I knew the British had previosuly suffered from the disease, but I alwas thought it was largely the French artillery that did for them at Yorktown.

A few of mine.

The Militia units have a very ancient history and can be traced back to the times of Henry VIII and who controlled them were one of the triggers for the English Civil War. Essentialy they were home defence troops, organised by county and for most of their history that is what they did which allowed regular units to serve abroad. During the Napoleonic wars, they did then also provide trained replacements for the regular forces and again during the Boer war period when some Militia units were sent to Africa mostly as L of C troops.

They underwent a series of amalgamations until the early 20th century when they were converted in 1908 into Tf or army special reserve Bn's associated with their local regiment.

A comprehensive series of books covering the Welsh Militia units was started by the late Bryn Owen, but sadly he passed away before all of the intended books were published. I think circa six were published and the information above is cribbed from them. Those that were published were done so as a part of a series known collectively as The History of the Welsh Militia and Volunteer Corps.

PS A beautiful uniform grouping.