Ulsterman

Very nice!

Not a them-an "it" and it doesn't scan well.

convex shape-

No the paragraph above is my summary of your article. Do i have it right? Were Munka badges earlier and non cash awards?

OK-coming out of left field here-but what about Afghani medals for their wars (and side of the confilict versus the Europeans?).

I have seen several rebellion medals and bravery medals for the 1919 war at auction, not to mention the communist regimes' awards.

Nice! I am saving up for a "matched set".

Nice-is that the soft red plastic star with the coat of arms stuck on?

hee heee-Jeff Floyd can reveal all-but the Argys seem to have gone from cloth ribbons (old style or full dress) to these neat enamel ribbons fr service dress/combat dress. This air force bar may well have been worn IN Antarctica.

All part of my plan to get Rick to write his ribbon bars of the world book.....one day....

I expect it was a management problem...

No, back in 1990 I spoke to some DDR managers and they said "They pretended to work and we pretended to pay them".

But over here the socialist dream lives on in the hearts of (non tax paying) college campuses.

Well, I hit the motherlode today with rick, but that's another story for another day...

So, in reviewing the JOMSA article on these badges there were 4 major types and eras:

type 1: "professional association badges" 1948-52, dates on scrolls (I think of this as the "guild era")

type 2: well made Rakosi era (and coat of arms) star badges: three grades (inc. Stavon. badges)

type 3: Not so well made badges, use of plastic. Post Rakosi coat of arms, reintroduction of some types of professional association badges and also the "Munka... series badges ...1952-mid 1970s?

type 4: Mid 1970s-1991: Use of Munkaeret medal, flat cold enamel badges, soft tonka-toy type red cases or brittle plastic keystone types. continued proliferation of "munka" type badges (possibly because there was no cash bonus with that badge?).

Also during all this were the "brigade" badges and the semi official company badges for merit or long service.

This could well be a whole book!

Any comments?

I note that many Hungarians even today note their award of the Kivalo Dolgozo badge on their resumes-and there was an avant garde "white noise" punk/metal band of that name that seems to have attracted all sorts of unusual (and sometimes naked) young goth girls as fans. A google search last week forced me to do some fast explaining to my wife!

I should point out that the one on the left has "yellowed" with age and is a type B-found on page 4 (as is the other).

Hee hee

Good to see you all today.

I gave our friend our address here, so he'll be looking in.

I am gobsmacked at the rolls!

Astounding.

Many thanks!

OK, as someone who got an A level in geography-that is way cool.

It must be very rare.

Is that Ralf the green party candidate?

Brilliant!!

My thanks to you sir!

thanks! I think there was thread on this "bar" earlier-it's evaporated.

wow-that picture looks familiar.

I have been looking for a reasonably priced copy of "four Months" for about 20 years now. If you see one, let me know.

Why the wrong Volkspfleg medal? I have seen these on Gauleiters' bars.

oh? Look at the AEZ ribbon again.

This person wasn't in the military in WW1.

It's odd and to a very old man, but I'd like to hear Rick L.'s comments.

The back looks very fresh and I might bet that the top bar is original and the lower bar was made to fit it. The problem is the officer's long service medal. If it was a 12 year NCOs medal, then it's the story of an old NCO who got out pre WW1, went into a bureaucrats' job and then loyally supported bond drives etc. But there were lots of older officers who got out with merely a LS medal. The 1914 ranklist has dozens of them.

But, I suspect it is ok.

Oh, OK, my confusion. Any idea what the numbers are for the Austro-Hungarian Army?

see post #23!

Ah-my error in translating ranks. sorry for misleading. I thought it meant Jr. Field Marshall".

lastly....

despite rampant anti-Semitism in the Austro-Hunagrian empire jewish officers and men served the Emperor well indeed. Including Hazai, there were 25 jewish or converted Jewish Generals in the KuK army.

76 Gold medals and 22 Orders of the Iron Crown were won by Jews: 300,000+ jews served and and another 25,000+ were officers. Not a few later went to Auschwitz.

See "Juden in der kuk Armee: 1788-1918" (English translation available) by Eisenstadt, 1989.

Two other factoids:

There was an interesting discussion at the U.S. Holocaust museum a few years ago that was broadcast on C-Span (the U.S. government channel) about Jews who had been saved because of military service. The presenters clearly had no idea about the medals to which they were referring and one man, who I have subsequently been in contact with (he's an archivist) kept referring to "the iron cross third class with swords" (obviously a BavMVK3x). Their point was that there was significant jewish WW1 service and indeed, Hindenburg had refused to allow Hitler to disenfranchise jewish ex-servicemen.

In "Ordinary Men" one of the police reservists who spent his war shooting innocent people recounted how they led German Jewish families from Hamburg into the woods and one day they got talking to guy who recounted how he had won the EK2 in WW1. They shot him too alongside his kids. these men later went home and served as regular police in Hamburg through the 1970s.

Kev,

Walter Transfeldt in his "Wort und Brauch in Heer und Flotte" gives the following figures: 96,000 Jewish soldiers participated in WW1 of which 2000 were commissioned plus a further 1200 medical officers.

There was not an Austro-Hungarian Jewish Field-Marshal although Generaloberst Samuel Baron von Hazai was a Jewish convert to christianity.

Regards

Glenn

But what about Feldmarschalleutnant Johann Freidlander and general Josef Stochmal-both of whom ended up in Concentration camps? freidlander ended up there in part (or mostly) because he was accounted a Jew by the Nazis.

It was he I was referring to-I was thinking in terms of "race" instead of "religion" as the former category was what counted for the Nazis. Hazai also had the good fortune to be in Budapest and left alone. He died in 1942-by which point even the Hungarian army had been purged.

In Hungary , Decree 2870 in 1941 deprived all jewish reserve officers of their ranks. That summer, all Jewish men were recalled to have their Wehrpasses updated. They were issued new cards and books, allowing them only to do 'labour service". the card was stamped with a big "Z", for "Zsido" (Jew).

Only jewish war veterans who were 75% disabled OR had a gold medal for bravery OR 2 silver bravery medals were exempted from the anti-jewish decrees (and allowed to serve). there are accounts of highly decorated openly jewish officers serving in Hungarian units on the eastern front alongside SS units. later, even the Arrow Cross left the highly decorated veterans alone.

Before 1848 only one Jew was a regular officer in the Prussian army: the exceptional Major Meno Burg of the artillery. A royal edict barred jews from officer rank. Several, especially medical officers, received commissions in the 'liberal' 1870s.

From 1885-1914 the German Jewish League actively campaigned for jews to be given reserve officer commissions and despite several Reichstag commissions, notably in 1908 and 1913, no Jews were given reserve commissions.

Between 20,000-30,000 served as Einjahriger volunteers between 1875-1914.

The political issue came to a head in May, 1912, when the Reichstag debated the case of Arthur Leiber, an Einjahrer who had been recommended for a commission by his regimental colonel, but denied by the War Department. The War Ministers' abysmal response was accorded by many to Be "not his finest hour" (Kaiser Wilhelm). Many anti-Semetic Prussian Reichstag Delegates openly stated that the jews should not be allowed officer status because of their inferior race and many senior Prussian officers openly agreed.

In 1914 the Reich had @650,000 Jewish citizens-not including illegal Polish Jewish immigrants.

The Bavarian and Austrian armies both gave commissions to Jews.

During the war however, especially after 1915, many Jews received Lt dR. commissions, on a war-time basis. Several may even have been in Guards Regiments. I'd be surprised if they were in the cavalry though-

The Austrians had a number of Jewish Generals as well as a Field Marshall. In 1943 the Gestapo and Vienna SA and a few HJ helpers rounded up the inhabitants of the Vienna Jewish Disabled Servicemens' Home (@ 300 vets) and sent them to Auschwitz where they were all murdered.

I once knew a man whose family were sent to Thereisenstadt because he had been a Lt. d R. in the Bavarian army. He was given a rare Visa to the USA in 1937 because he had won the EK1-and it was noted on his Visa application.

His family, except his daughter Gerda, who I still know quite well, were all gassed in 1943. The SA man who took their house in Marburg still lived there in 1987. I expect his family still has the house.

Ann Franks' father was also a Lt.d R. and won the EK2.

wow!!!!

That Hessen bar is SUPERB!!!

If you ever want to trade let me know.

Also, not that I like this stuff, there's a nice 1930s Eire army officers' cap for 90 pounds on eBay. The first one I remember seeing since wallis and Wallis had one in 1978.