Tom

Under the microscope it looks to be a crown. I suppose they must be ILR men afterall.

They had just been trained by Rohr and I think this was just before they went to Fleury.

Best

Chris

Goodmorning,

This picture is taken after the attack of the ILR on Fleury on 11 July 1916. The men are indeed from the ILR. The picture is taken in Chaumont. The French soldiers of the 167th regiment were taken prissoner in the area of the Poudriére the Fleury. A stronghold that the ILR took that day.

greetings from Holland,

Tom

It is the valley where also the Carri?rres d'Haudromont were. This is the first valley when you drive from Bras to the battlefield. In the valley the road goes in a sharp curve.

Btw. there are more valleys in Verdun that they used to call Totenschlucht.

I agree. It is always the rule when two grazy persons go bidding...the sky is the limit.

What is interesting in my eyes on this kr?tschen are the markings.

I always thought the leather interior of the M17 should be white but maybe not.

Tony

I think they did this in case their wasn't enough leather.

Very interesting piece Jens. Incredible two that it is from your regiment!

Model 16? Exactly what you search Tom.

Yep, you know me to well, haha

I had an discussion with an fellowfriend and collector yesterday and we came to the conclusion that:

1. the shoulderboards are absolutely good (feel, smel, touch etc.);

2. they are infanterie (white under it);

3. they are Bavarian (blue stripes);

4. the crown is an Prussian one.

The last conclusion is most interesting because of the boards being bavarian. What often happened he told me is that Prussian fabrics made stuff for the Bavarians and way around. That means basecly that they used what they could find and what looked like it.

Also interesting is the difference between the Bavarian crown and the Prussian one which can even been seen on the Pickelhaube. The crown of Prussia has under points and the Bavarian one stripe diamant stripe etc. The Prussian crown has an cross directly attached to the point of the crown and the Bavarian one has the cross above the point.

Unsollicited advice to those who are interested in the Verdun battles . The German Reichsarchiv volumes from the 1920's into 1930's about Verdun are very objectively written and give much information on units deployed with losses experienced and other valuable information as to artillery used and so forth. These volumes are available at relatively low cost and if fortunate still contain the maps with which they came originally.

I totaly agree with you on this Bernhard. When one studies the battle of Verdun the Reichsarchiv are most of the time correct or the most in the wright direction.

Also nice are the books of the Reichskriegsministerium, especially part 10. This book contains the working method of the German hight command. Also with maps btw.

Haha, when you keep on coming with this high interesting stuff I stay awake all the time.

Chris,

Extremely interesting document you have here. The story behind this document must indeed be enormous if you look at the places he have been.

Dave,

Thank you for the information. I think indeed this must be an variation of the crown of the Infanterie Leib Regiment.

I looked closer at some other crowns and variations on the shoulderboards. The one to come most close is the one of the Prussian Husaren.

Ineresting topic Chris.

Does the soldier describe the place at the Verdunfront where they were?

Interesting story on Frederick, thank you.

Small world indeed.

Thank you for the answers.

The shoulderboards, later posted, indeed look like the board on page 250 of the book. The band of the crown is indeed with diamends and not points. Also the upper cross on the crown is higher than the crown and not directly attached to it.

The same crowns are on;

1. The feldgrauer Waffenrock fur Offiziere M1910

page 150, 279

2. Waffenrock zur feldgrauen Friedensrock M1915

page 160

3. Bayerische einheitsmantel fur Offiziere M1916

page 197

4. Waffenrock M1916 fur offiziere

page 282

Are their any known variations in the crowns of the Leibregiment? Are the boards I posted for sure Bavarian and could they be Bavarian but from an other regiment? For what kind uniform are these boards; active or Friedens?

When I am thinking now...if my conclusion must state than the man on the left is Friedrich III who died very quick (something with his longs).

Than the child in the lower part of the photo must be Kronprinz Wilhelm the later Armycommander of the German Vth Army.

These four men on the photo are I think the four kings of Prussia. The one on the right is Wilhelm II. The one most up is I think Wilhelm I. For the others I know to little to can see who they are.

It is interesting indeed that there is written in English on the photo. I think this has the following reason. In 1800 and the beginning of 1900 Prussia was a normal state in Europe. It was a state that was developing itself fast. As a lot of people now people than must have been interested in the kings and emperors. So they collected photo's etc. This is one given out for the English marked (fans;-).

Interesting photo. On what have being said I agree. I think these soldiers are from the Bavarian Infanterie Regiment 14, 1st Bataljon. What is an interesting detail on which I am not sure already noticed is that behind the names are numbers 1 till 4. This must be the companynumbers because a bataljon normally consisted of 4 companys.

Chip,

I agree. I imidiately knew what kind of type you were talking about.

Here are some pictures:

Hello,

I think if I look closer at the crown that the part most down is different from the Infanterie Leib Regiment:

Right is the type I mostly see in the literature I have.

Does someone know what this difference means. Does it mean an other regiment or an other model of crown of the Leib regiment?

In a PM talk with Chip we both aren't sure about the autencity on the type of Schneeschutzbrille we have. The thing I am not sure of is the fact that the stamps (of which the Germans are grazy about) are missing.

This is the type:

This is the box.

These are the glasses.

I saw these glasses passing by two times on the militariamarket. Then I saw them in the museum "Lange Max" in Koekelare (Belgium). Checked al the glasses for stamps. But didn't found any stamps. One of the boxes I saw had some old German writing on it (the Germans stopped writing like that after 1945). So I am positively sure that it is an old type of Schneeschutzbrille but have not hart prove that is really an Alpenkorpsitem.

The second type I have is this one:1 and 2 (Press on the numbers).

These glasses were in Militaria Magazine in a topic on the Wurttembergische Gebirgsbataillon (WGB, Rommel).

More information on the Schneeschutzbrille is welcome

Thank you for the fast reactions.

My special interest in the Alpenkorps is their part in the Verdun attacks. That means the attacks on 23 and 11 july. I am at the moment busy trying to write a book on the attack on 11 july 1916 (attack on the fort of Souville). On my research I went this year to the Bavarian Military Archive in Munich. This was really amazing. About the 3. Jager Regiment. When I started studying them it became, as much in this hobby, somewhat of an obsession.

My avatar is from this item sold at Hermanns Historica auction:

**** Attn: Note from ChrisB.... I have caused CHAOS! but for a reason..... we had a few long lost threads about Alpenkorps which I have now merged. Down side is, sometimes it is not obvious to see which text goes with which item... but feel free to post questions... there were some really nice items posted and I decided it was worth the Chaos to not loose sight of those threads completely, thanks :-) Chris ****

Good evening,

Just started on this forum. A friend of mine already sendet me a lot of interesting topics so it was time for me to sine up.

I just bought these shoulderstraps.


I bought them as shoulderstraps of an major of the Bavarian Infanterie Leib regiment. Because of my spezial interest in the Alpenkorps and the part they played in the Battle of Verdun I bought them.

Are their more people on this forum with an spezial interest in the Alpenkorps?

greetings,

Tom