Mike K

Monster 3

Monster 2

Monster 1

Pic 4 and 5

Note the massive amount of fill between the two frames

Monster 1

Pic 2 & Pic 3

Some current eBay recently completed EK2 to EK1 "conversions", designed to fleece unwary variant collectors. Either laugh or throw up, but don't be fooled

Monster 1...

Pic1

Maybe he was killed during the war? How quickly were 1870 EKs actually handed out after being earnt?

Maybe a better question is when were the 1870/71 campaign medals awarded? He would had to have died before then I guess.

Regards

Mike

As a postscript to this discussion the badge sold on German eBay today for $2,587.41

I guess that means non-seriffed maker mark variations are accepted?

Regards

Mike

This award did come in two grades.

This one is 1st Class - pinback. I forgot to mention that it is quite vaulted.

There was a second class on a ribbon.

Regards

Mike

Reverse...

Hi Alexandre,

I have been looking for a good honest example of the III. Marine-Brigade von Loewenfeld Ehrenzeichen for quite some time. I finally found one I was happy with - some pics are attached.

Unfortunately these have imo been reproduced - I recall several years ago seeing them being sold by a notorious dealer from Arizona. I thought I had saved the pics but I can not find them.

I am sure one of the specialists of the immediate post-WK1 era will be able to provide correct info (or a good link) regarding the unit's activities.

Hopefully there are some more examples out there to be shown as well!

Regards

Mike

Hi Naoki,

As Micha states, that is a nice wartime FA1X.

My understanding on the award boxes for these is that they were a tight fitting square box with a "Crown + FA" in a circle on the outside and the Knauer logo on the inside of the lid.

I think this particular case could have been for any item Kanuer made.

Let's wait for what others have to say though.

Regards

Mike

Don't worry steve, the L/ marking DEFINES this example as post-41. It HAS to be TR (or later).

Actually, I just noted the very unusual obverse crown and "W" design - interesting!

Regards

Mike

Hi Micha,

It was Winkler who had the other example. This is definitely NOT the same cross (I have the pics saved). The Winkler example had different DRGM "engraving" (no brackets for a start) and the back of the cross was 925 marked. The very crude screwpost appears to be similar on both example. The core on the two crosses is imo the same.

I did not like the engraving on the Winkler example - it looked like it was done with a modern electric engraver. The "engraving" on your example looks much more believable though.

Although the cross itself and large backplate look OK, I'm really not sure what to make of these screwposts and engravings. The only thing that makes me say it's not one of the current EK2 conversions is the fact that both examples appear to be vaulted.

Regards

Mike

Don't forget the "Frankenstein" K.M.S.T. variations.......

Micha

Frankenstein! Micha!!! I would have though "Rolls Royce" would be a better term for the super rare and rare KMST twin posters!! Although I guess applying a British trademark to German over-engineering may not be appropriate?!

Mario, I think the X-plate twin-post examples are not common at all, not that twin-post EK1s are common in the first place. The large round circular plates (with varying numbers of holes) would be the most common attachment device though imo.

Regards

Mike

More than just original, a nice early tombak maker marked original! As Schwerins go, quite desirable!

Regards

Mike

Hi Micha,

Interesting topic! I think rarity becomes sort of personal as it comes down to what you don't have in your own collection tempered by personal desirability. Ones at the top of my own rarity list would be;

- enamel core - I remember Detlev sold a cased EK1/EK2 set years ago

- rotating disc KMST (I have seen 2 or 3 of these, so fortunately it's not a unique variant)

- Wagner twin-fang - never seen one for sale

- Werner twin-fang - never seen one for sale

Others you mention are rare and/or unusual, like the "JWS" "RW" and "Fincke" examples. Some are very uncommon to rare, like NON-"Hansen hoard" Hansen screwbacks (how about a 938 example?), J H WERNERs, KMSTs, examples marked with Austrian proofmarks and the twin-prong pillow-backs.

Ones that I personally don't consider rare (only because I've found them) include "Fr + W" (guess where the WAF one is?), "W + 800", "CD 800" on the PIN, an EARLY Sedlatzek (not the 30s/TR font), a butt ugly unmarked MFH cored example and examples with "800" stamped on the CATCH.

So, each to their own and each to their own desires!

Regards

Mike

Hi Wildcard,

Yes, I noticed the rivets. I recall seeing one of these riveted Rose examples before, possible on eBay and I think discussed on WAF.

My example is that same type as Dave D's.

Interesting that there are so many variants. Explanations I can think include a high degree of individual hand work or Rose were outsourcing (the similarity in the bevelling with the Godet example is interesting!

Regards

Mike

The wartime ones were blackened iron and had a concave back.Many of the later ones were painted brass with a flat back like yours..

The wartime examples attributed to KNAUER were blackened iron and one of thie variants had the central concave dish as imaged above. Wartime Meck-Schwerin and Lippe-Detmold first class crosses (attributed, I've read, to Zimmermann, Stuttgart) were produced in tombak and use the same distinctive hardware as the vaulted Oldenburger example Steve has shown. Personally I think there is a good chance the Oldenburger FA1X in this thead has a good chance of being wartime produced, but by a much less common maker.

Regards

Mike

Hi,

A lovely Meybauer! They produced screwbacks of almost all the pinback crosses; Prussian EK, Meck-Schwerin MVK, Braunschweig KVK, Lippe-Detmold, Schaumburg-Lippe are ones I've seen (or own). I agree, more than likely post-WW1 though. A German dealer had one of these for a reasonable price until recently - it was missing the oakleaf devices though, otherwise I'd have had it.

Thanks for showing this one!

Regards

Mike

Great cross!

It was probably intended for a nurse, to hang next to her upside down watch (seriously, they do that - wear their watches upside down I mean).

Regards

Mike

Hi Micha,

That's a nice set and the cross is in exceptionally nice condition!

Interestingly, when I compared the two types of CD 800 markings on my examples, I found the fonts were different heights (can't remember which was bigger though, one line or two lines).

Regards

Mike

Hi Ken,

Although there are a very few 800 marked apparently genuine 1939 EK1s, I do not think this is one of them. I think a straight on shot of the reverse of the cross - with the pin DOWN/CLOSED - will reveal this to be an Eastern European fake. The wide tapering pin of these one-piece fakes is distinctive.

Regards

Mike

Hi Chris,

Interesting and sobering pic. I assume earlier war?

Does the ?bandsman standing on the left have something cross-shaped on his chest hiding in the shadows?

Regards

Mike

...Maybe I should make a big question mark behind "AWS".........?

No, I think AWS marked examples are still clear. The question is only over this core type, until a marked example turns up

Regards

Mike

Hi Micha,

Nice cross! Also very interesting!

The core on this example is very different to the core on my AWS marked needle-pin example. It tells me either AWS used (at least) two cores or there were (at least) two makers of pillow-back EK1s. I would be intersted to hear if anybody has, or has seen, a MARKED AWS example with the core type on your screwback cross.

With this particular distinctive core type (short but wide crown, "notches" at the bottom of the numbers, distinct "4") there are other examples which do not have the pillow back. See here;

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13645

Interestingly, the pin on my wide-pin example in the above link can also be found on some pillow-back examples.

Regards

Mike