Mike K

Hi Kriztofer,

The example you posted shares NONE of the same hardware with the example under discussion - the hinge is obviously very different, the main pin on the example you show has a square/rectangular profile (no, it's not round, it just has rounded edges) and the catch is obviously different.

I can only think of one wartime / 20s maker who used a "flatwire" catch - CD800 (and their related "square punch" cousins) - and the catch on those is very different. Flatwire catches are known on 1914 EK1s, but those crosses are of imo 30s/40s (and post-war, including 57er) construction. NON of those 30s or later crosses used the type of hinge as the cross in question.

I have no problems with needle/round pin EK1s, but none of them share the core or the hinge with the cross in question.

The core on the cross in question is not known to me. I also personally think the crown is very unusual and not in proportion with the W or the date.

Wouldn't surprise me if the beading on this frame could be typed to one of the "Latvian" fakes in common circulation.

In this case the patina - which to me looks artificial - IS important when taken into consideration with the other bad points this cross exhibits.

Regards

Mike

A nice set.

For what it's worth, the colour of the case is normally referred to as Burgundy (red AND brown!!). Is the material hinge intact or split, as on most other cases of this type these days?

Regards

Mike

Hi,

I have not seen one like this before but nothing I see makes me like this one at all - especially the hardware and patina. My guess is that is a new fake we'll be seeing more of in the near future.

Regards

Mike

The maker mark looks like KAG but I don't recall seeing a KAG core like that one before. Maybe they outsourced some extra cores that did not quite match their existing frames?!

Regards

Mike

Hi Rich,

Yes, probably the most common maker - most likely because this type was the main type of wartime award and I get the impression there were very few wartime manufacturers of the Meck-Schwerin MVK1. The other probably wartime award variations are much less common. 20s/30s/40s/57er variations are around but not that common either.

Regards

Mike

Maybe this will help put things in perspective?

Regards

Mike

Hi Rich,

That's a nice wartime original. Lightly worn and I would assume slightly vaulted. As far as I know, the true maker of these is still unknown.

Regards

Mike

Hi Rick,

It's just a ding.

Regards

Mike

Hi Rick,

Yes, there's a good chance this one was cast. All the cut-outs and edges are hand-done, so it makes it difficult to be 100% either way though (it may be die-struck and hand finished as well). You are likely correct on the period too.

Regards

Mike

Reverse...

Something a little bit different - thoughts?

Fyi, after examining the cross, I believe the hardware to be original (not replacements) and the paint to also be original (not repainted). Non-ferrous base-metal. Flat-backed.

Regards

Mike

Obverse...

I always thought that the square box stamp was a pin mark from the manufacturing process. Am I wrong in thinking this?

Hi Nick,

Yes, imo wrong. I used to think this to as my first "square punch" had the mark on the pin in the catch position. The mark is also found on the backplates of EK1s (dead center on another example) and on other items, such as Prussian Pilot and Observer Badges.

Regards

Mike

Hi Pierce,

Nothing wrong with your Meyabuer Schlesien Adler. Nice to see a non-vaulted and gold coloured one in 2nd Class.

Regards

Mike

Hi Micha,

I agree with you - a replaced pin. There is work around the hinge and the central barrel segment does not align well with the outer barrel segments. Also, the basic shape of the pin does not look like "right". It also appears the basemetal of the pin has a slightly different (?yellowish) tone compared to the cross.

Regards

Mike

Hi,

I can see why there have been a few views but no comments on this one. For me the hardware is unusual and the application of the silvered devices leaves a bit to be desired. At least they ARE separately attached! I can't condemn it as bad - it may certainly be period - but personally it's not one I'd add to my own collection.

Regards

Mike

Hi Steve,

A nice looking example and a great addition!

Eric, flat-backed Meybauers are actually quite hard to find. Nice to see another one!

Regards

Mike

Hi Maja,

The core on your EK2 also matches cores found on some EK1s "Fr" and "FR" examples.

Regards

Mike

Hi Beau,

That's certainly a cross I'd have no hesitation adding to my collection!!

I'm away from my collection at the moment, so from memory this is not a core type I've seen associated with W-S (Wagner & Sohn). I've seen it associated with S-W (believed to be Sy & Wagner) and Fr EK1s. From what I can tell, your cross is also vaulted. I am sure I have an example like it - either unmarked or only marked for silver content from memory. At this stage, I'd lean more towards this being a Wagner altered example from another maker rather than an all Wagner (W-S) piece.

In any case, a real beauty!

Regards

Mike

Hi Tom,

An interesting grouping and an interesting career - from kanonier to LW Engineer!

Any chance of a close-up of the reverse of the enamel Schlesien Adler 1 Kl? It looks like it might be one of the4 Max Reich examples but with ?repaired hardware?

Interesting to see WERNER Sedlatzek, rather than the more usual Fredrich!! Maybe Werner was the earlier owner of the firm, or Friedrich broke away to form his own firm?

Regards

Mike

I agree, a nice original 20s/30s one-piece screwback with the Sedlatzek distributor (as opposed to maker) mark applied.

Regards

Mike

This cross is a known FAKE. The easiest way to spot it is to look at the bottom rim (sweatband)

of the crown. In all cases it is off center to the right of the of the rest of the crown.

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure I've seen genuine 1914 EKs with this feature. I'll check when I get home.

Regards

Mike

Hi Chet,

Imo 100% original - and a wartime award.

Honest wear.

I see no problems.

Regards

Mike

The cross is Prinzen size and from what i can see it appears to be an original on a genuine Austrian tri-fold ribbon - than again, I'm no expert!

Regards

Mike

Hi Alik,

I'd suggest looking at the seams/edges of this example VERY carefully. The frames look beaten up and the core does not appear to fit properly.

Regards

Mike

Personally I believe Knauer to be the main manufacturer, not retailer, of Oldenburg FAXs.

As Knauer also made their own screwbacks (ie with the standard wartime award obverse design) why would they outsource from Meybauer in Berlin?

For the record, I've seen more than one Meybauer screwback that I KNOW to have been married (not by me) with a Knauer etui in the past few years.

But hey, 90 years after the fact, who's going to know for sure.

Regards

Mike