FrontlineAntiques

Yep, 1902 - 1920, from the photo this looks like an OR's gilding metal rather than an OSD though, just unpolished.

I do agree with that. Doesn't look bronze, more likely to be unpolished ORs.

Dan

It is magnificent!

Thanks for sharing,

Dan

Graham & Mervyn,

Thank you very much for your help. Looking into the unit history I think Mervyn is right about its age--post-WWI The APC became the Royal Army Pay Corps.

Jonathan

Quite right Jonathan.

The APC became the RAPC in 1920, placing this badge between 1902 and 1920 (pre 1902 had the Queens Crown, where this has KC.)

Great little badge

Dan

:love: That is a great looking bar Christian! :love:

There was a Major John P Brennan who was assistant military aide to President Nixon in 1969. Highly dubious that this is our man, since it is a relatively common name, but you never know.

Im pretty sure that this chap was Marine corps.

One thing that i have found is that there is a lrage concentration of military Brennans in and around the Boston, Mass. area

This is going to be an area for me to look at too

Thanks Doc

Dan

Highly unlikely. Too late to be a second louie, unless he was enlisted in Nam. And the name change is suspicious. I don't think this is the one. If he is not otherwise in the MSC stud book, then it is unlikely that he was MSC, and this hypothesis/guess would seem to be wrong.

I think that may well be the case Doc

Be aware, there was a John P. Brennan who was an Army aviator, and who died as a Captain in Vietnam--- obviously he did not make it to Colonel, but lots of name searches will pull him up

I havent seen anything to this chap at all im my searches. Where did you hear about him?

Thanks

Dan

Why do you think he changed his name from John to James?

Remember - this guy was an officer no later than 1964 per Doc's serial number revelation.

During Vietnam there was no aviation branch.

All branches could fly - most damaging their careers by so doing.

MSC, TC and Armor were the branches to be in if an aviator as they had proponency over aspects of Army Aviation. The other branches were not happy to have their highly trained branch qualified officers off having fun in flying machines. I personally know a senior aviator in the grade of Major with every bravery medal except the Medal of Honor who was instructed by his branch (FA) to either get out of the cockpit or get out of Artillery. He propmtly transferred to Armor and saved his career.

Signal had activities involving ir traffic control and air space management. This plus his NSC name plate suggests an option as likely as MSC.

Please note that senior wings required 7 years of operational flying in addition to other requirements.

Heave on top of that the Master Parachute Wings and you are looking at some substantial time...

He could easily be a combat arms officer who transferred to aviation upon the branch creation if he was still around at that time.

I need to suggest that when you are seeking help that you provide facts and not speculation - the MSC proposal is speculative and could easily lead a helper up the wrong path. Translating NSC into any one of the other alternatives is equally troublesome.

While I'm sure that the NSC will not talk to you - perhaps the Soldier Care Center at the Natick Labs, Massachusetts would.

Good luck but as stated earlier - finding this guy is going to be a stretch especially if you change his name.

Wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang

In my excitement at gaining some possibly possitive information on our guy, i completely missread his name in the email from the MSC. A large schoolboy-error on my part. I am confident that the chaps name is John Patrick Brennan, and this is the name i am researching.

The Soldier Care Center at the Natick Labs is the next port of call, hope fully they will be able to help.

Dan

That assignment would probably NOT have been put on his leather name tag. Doc

Good point Doc!

News from Bob Ampula at the MSC -

The Medical Service Corps so far only has reference to a James P.Brennan, 2LT in 1970. This was from their Stud Book, which only liststheir location at the time. They are going to send an inquiry to the Silver Caduceus Society to see if anyone knows of him.

I hope this is him.

I have just been given some helpful information. Fort Rucker, Alabama, is the home of Army Aviation and they have a museum.

This could prove helpful, they may be able to point me in the right direction

From the museum...

"We do not have specific information on the individual in question. My suspicion might be that with his pedigree of being a Senior Aviator and Master Parachutist, and after three tours in RVN, once he had obtained the rank of Colonel he was more than likely attached to the NSC - which I would assume to be the National Security Council. Not a typical career track, but he may well have had connections that made that so.

Remember that Oliver North, as a Marine LTC was assigned to the NSC. You are probably quite correct in his assumption that Brennan was not a Colonel at the time of his service in Vietnam."

So, no new information, but certainly backs up some of our thoughts.

How likely is it that he may have been attached to the National Security Council?

Dan

I have just been given some helpful information. Fort Rucker, Alabama, is the home of Army Aviation and they have a museum.

This could prove helpful, they may be able to point me in the right direction :rolleyes:

I think that the reply by Jonas is most likely correct. One of my relatives came to the US from Belgium in 1772 and changed his surname from 'Aerts' to 'Smith.' It would seem to be a rather common thing in the 18th and 19th Centuries for immigrants with hard to pronounce names to change their names to common US names such as Brown, Smith, etc. Gunner 1

I think that the name change Peter Brown is the most probable. As Gunner says it was a very common occurance for a immigrant to chnage their name from something the local population found different/scary/difficult to pronounce, to something more "normal". Peter Brown is as plain and "normal" as they come!

I think that it would be unlikely for a 16 1/2 year old to travel half way around the world under his own steam too. More likely he was taken by his family when they emigrated en masse and he grew up there.

Well, if they had a list of his awards, that should give you more information-- what did they offer? I would assume that means they have confirmed that he existed, and they probably should have had his corps listed. If the AMEDD people had it, I bet he was Medical Service Corps.

He didn't say that they had the records of any of Pats awards. They dont have any record of a JP Brennan being awarded a silver star. Not surprising really, considering we now know that he didn't have one!

He said that he will look at their other databases of awards to medical personel and let me know his findings, and he has also has put in a Freedom Of Information Act inquiry for informaion relating to our Colonel B.

The chaps name is Sergeant Major (Retired) Robert Ampula with the US Army Medical Department Regiment's History Branch. He has been very helpful, and is actually on a couple of research quests himself -

1- To attempt to catalogue EVERY award for valor to US Medical Department personnel. This must be a daunting task due to the differing levels of approval for the different awards.

and

2- Searching for information on an Army Medical Department Surgeon who was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for actions during the American Civil War. His name is variously listed as James Harry Thompson or Harry J.Thompson. He was born in England and there is reference to his having died in Great Yarmouth, England.

I have pointed him in the direction of this site, as i am sure he would find t beneficial

So, with a lightening fast response from the US Army Medical Regiment, I am unfortunately no further on.

They were unable to help me as other than awards, they have very little in the way of individual records.

Next stop the US National Archive. Any hints or tips?

OK, after checking a few things, I think that is a Dog Tag from early in his career.

The first line of numbers was his Officer Serial Number, which was replaced by the Social Security number in 1968.

Officer Serial numbers were prefixed with OF (as versus O) beginning in 1964.

The T-52-53 is the years he received his tetanus toxoid shots. This was no longer supposed to be on the dog tags after 1959.

The "Notch" in the tag was dropped in 1967.

B without a + or - was the appropriate blood type marking during the late 50s to early 60s.

So, based on this, and realising that changes didn't always happen per the regulations, and old styles etc often went on for years, I would guess that this is a dog tag from 1959 to the early 1960s, probably prior to 1964.

Doc

Doc, where hve you been all my life! Thats amazing! Thanks for your help.

I have emailed the MSC so hopefully we should get somewhere with service records...

Thanks

Im having a somewhat difficult time reading some of the details within his records.

There are several interesting parts that i just cannot decipher-

What were his distinguishing marks? Tattoo to shoulder cant make out much more.

Something about a superior officer.....

And sheffield police....?

Can anyone help?

Many thanks again, Dan :beer:

Ok, so here we have Harry's service records from Kew (thanks to the other halfs credit card. Just wouldnt take mine...)

Its pretty difficult to read but full of interesting info.....

Dan :cheers:

DFC criteria-- from the relevant Army Regulation:

312. Distinguished Flying Cross

a. The Distinguished Flying Cross, section 3749, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 3749), was established by

Act of Congress 2 July 1926.

b. The Distinguished Flying Cross is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity with the Army of

the United States, distinguished himself or herself by heroism or extraordinary achievement while participating in aerial flight. The performance of the act of heroism must be evidenced by voluntary action above and beyond the call of duty. The extraordinary achievement must have resulted in an accomplishment so exceptional and outstanding as to clearly set the individual apart from his or her comrades or from other persons in similar circumstances. Awards will be made only to recognize single acts of heroism or extraordinary achievement and will not be made in recognition of sustained operational activities against an armed enemy.

Similar to the UK criteria then - "an act or acts of valour, courage or devotion to duty whilst flying in active operations against the enemy". Short but sweet! :whistle:

John P Brennan

04005650

T-52-53 B. (blood type?)

Roman Catholic

Does anyone have any idea what the numbers on his tags relate to?

04005650

T-52-53 B.

Im guessing that B is his blood type.

From the Top -

both leather flight suit name plate and insignia indicate Senior ARMY Aviator as noted and the highest award shown is the Distinguished Flying Cross

Given what I see - that is my suspicion and this rack is one he wore early in a second tour in country. I think there is reason to doubt that he was a colonel at the time he actually wore this bar.

Thanks for the detailed response! you guys are all very fast and definately know your stuff!

Thankyou for putting me on the right track with the flightsuit name plate and DFC.

I think that you are correct that JP Brennan wouldnt have had the rank of Colonel at the time he was wearing this bar.

Out of interest, what is the qualification for the US DFC? Is it similar to the UK medal?

Thanks again, Dan

Nice Group. First, though, he is an ARMY aviator, not Air Force. I suspect the "NSC" should be "MSC"-- that would be Medical Service Corps, which would certainly be possible, since they fly most of our helicopter ambulances. For more information on him, Try contacting the Army Medical Regiment at the Army Medical Department Center and School, Ft. Sam Houston, Texas. They may be able to give you more information on him. Their URL is: http://ameddregiment.amedd.army.mil/

Doc

Hey Doc

Thanks for the superfast reply!

What gives t away as army as opposed to airforce? is it an insignia or the lay out? I am a total novice to US militaria so you will have to bear with me.

Thanks

Dan

Hi Chaps

I have just ventured into the world of US medals with my first purchase

I Have bought a Vietnam era group to Colonel Pat Brennan, an airforce aviator. My other halfs surname is Brennan, and i bought this for the family link to her name .

The only info i have on him so far is the group itself -

Pat Brennan - full name John P Brennan (presumably the P is for Patrick)

Colonel

NSC (National Security Council??)

Tags state -

John P Brennan

04005650

T-52-53 B. (blood type?)

Roman Catholic

His medals are -

1. Silver Star

2. Air Medal

3. Army Commendation Medal – 3 citations?

4. National Defense Service Medal

5. Vietnam Service Medal -3 tours?

6. Vietnam Campaign Medal + 1960 bar

He also has -

Flight suit name tag with Senior Aviator Badge and Master parachutist badge, Pat Brennan COL NSC

Plastic name tag for dress uniform with last name Brennan

Two full size colonel rank eagles

Master Parachutist badge

Senior aviator badge

If any one can help i would like any info on him. Im based in the UK and this is the first US group i have purchased.

I dont know anything about him apart from he was in Vietnam.

I dont have the group in hand at the minute, but as soon as i do i will post better photos

Any info would be good as i would like to put a person/story to the group. Thanks

Dan

Have you had any luck?

Dan

More US bars arrived.

Old WW1 vet who entered to the second war as well.... with nice ribbans

Very interesting bar - BWM and TFEM

Dan

Hi Everyone,

A mate of mine who is into Vietnam home made films and photos has about 15 mins of footage taken by a member of the 3/47th the Riverine inf so he is sending me a DVD of it and it shows some of the commanders i hope the Col is there.I have also found a very small bit of info that he won his purple heart in Vietnam on an S and D mission.

With the group of medals there was a Purple Heart but this was not named ?? Were all Purple Hearts of this period named the ones I have had they were all named.Could this be his or were the originals all named?

Also does anyone the battle order and commanders of the 187th reg combat team in Korea??

Thanks

Chris

Great group Chris, and a wonderful story too.

Im just about to purchase my first US group, hope they prove to be as interesting!

Dan

Hi Histaria

This badge dates from between 1950 (the year that the Army Air Corps was disbanded) and 1957, when the crown was swapped got a Queens Crown (as apposed to the Kings crown on this badge) and the text removed.

It is made n white metal and i would suggest a price of between £7.00 and £12 sterling.

Hope this helps

Dan