mmiller

Hello John,

In your 'triple shot' photo example, with the various stages of Assmann wreaths, what style Assmann EAGLE is on the middle(A2 wreath) example?

Regards,

Mark

Assmann produced a very early wreath known as the "Egg shaped" wreath (thus far found on combined pilot/observer, pilot and para badges) which is the true A1 wreath, making this type of wreath an A2.

Left: A1 (egg shaped) wreath. Middle: A2 (as per the one shown in the picture you posted) wreath. Right: A3 wreath.

Hi Steve,

I had several collectors send stuff to my address for Steve to photograph. I didn't recall you being in that group, but could be wrong. I weighed and measured while Steve worked the shutter. After all the dust settled, I did provide comments about my badges, but I didn't recall info about any badges other than mine. (I could still be wrong....?)

My guess is that, as you indicate, maybe the captions were inverted during the process. I do agree with you, that the Aluminum eagle on the IMME Pilot, does not match with a J1 eagle.

Best Regards,

Mark

Mark,

Thanks for the quick reply. Stephen and I shot the photographs of my collection at two different shows, SOS and Chantilly. I thought I had made it clear to him concerning the IMME badges but the text states that the eagle for the IMME first pattern is a Juncker eagle...which it clearly is NOT. Then, on the second pattern IMME eagle, the text states that this eagle is unique in die construction, which it is clearly for both eagles BUT wasn't reflected in the text for the first pattern IMME. The text boxes were obviously switched or changed at some point. I know these things can happen. I was just surprised to see this mistake and that it took me so long to discover it.

Thanks much,

Steve

Steve,

Is the badge in SP's book actually yours? Did you mail it to me, when Steve was in NOVA taking pictures, or did he shoot your badges seperately (which I tend to recall)? I did not write captions, per se, for the badges. I provided 'bullets' for mine, and thought I stayed away from specifics on any others, that I did not see firsthand. I know other people helped 'proof' the book. I am not 100% intimate with the all details & text. Did you check with Stephen? Maybe he has original notes.

Mark

Mark,

I'm bringing this back up because I noticed this badge in S. Previtera's book on combat badges. It states that the eagle is a Juncker eagle, and you questioned it here in the post above. Did you add the comment in Previtera's book that this is a Juncker eagle?

Thanks,

Steve

How tasteful! And very sexy, close up! At a discance of about 20 cm, they look their best!

Regards,

Mark

Thanks John,

And what a beautiful arse that is. Definately at the top of my 'wants' list.

Mark

Hi John,

A truly minty flock. They are all beautiful, of course, but am I to believe that in the lower right corner is a B&NL Flak? If so, very rare. How 'bout a rear end shot! Please.

Regards,

Mark

Hello All,

My biased opinion is ... this book will be the reference for some time to come. The last time Luft badges were covered was back in the 70s and early 80s. The images were grainy B&W photos. Information was limited. Good, questionable, and bad badges (Sea Rescue, LPAB, etc.) were mixed together. The production was rather 'sterile'.

I was proud to have worked with Steve on the new publication. Every attempt was made to vet the subject material. It would be foolhardy to say that no errors have been made, but with the assistance of knowledgable Luft collectors Worldwide, from all the popular Forums, I tend to think the mistakes will be minimal.

The presentation is what one would expect from Winidore Press (aka Steve Previtera). Lots of detailed images, lots of supporting award documents, lots of period portraits. It is my hope that collectors will be pleasantly surprised with the quantity of material presented, and quality of production, of the tome.

Regards,

Mark

PS - And yes, the dimensions & weights are in Metric this time around!

Rich and John,

I'll have to 'fold' on this hand. I can't even ante-up. Very desirable awards you have.

Regards,

Mark

JTW,

I'm shocked it took you so long. (I hope that this time lapse is not a sign of 'life outside of the hobby'?!) Anyway, your images are perfect for what I was looking for. Super pieces. I don't know where you find all these variants, if that is the socially acceptable term di jour. But they are beautiful. It's easy to see how someone can become an Assmann enthusiast.

But now what happens when we introduce the later consecutive eagles? Is it like an A1, A2, and A3 scenario, mixing wreaths and eagles?

Best Regards,

MM

:beer:

Hi Eric, and All,

What a star for your collection. Another rare, and I do say rare, example. Can you post the series (Assmann Pilots or P/Os) so I can see them 1, 2, 3, etc. I know the J1-3s, but Assmanns are tougher to find.

Regards,

Mark

ALL,

Thanks for taking the time to reply! Much appreciated.

Regards,

Mark

Hi All,

What are the thoughts on this PARA? I have posted before, but with mixed reviews.

Thanks for Opinions,

Mark

As you say, Mark...not many about, so are these post-war marked "BSW" badges? A collaboration between the two firms?

An example of this badge appears in Delev's last price guide, and I may be wrong... but didn't Francois once handle one that came from a pilot's group?

As far as the translation is concerned: I German Leg. Could that be 'I German (pulling your) leg?

@ Chris, as with J(I)MME, the "I" and "J" are interchangeable.

Hi John,

I agree with each and all of your forementioned points! All I know is that I checked a map, and Euskirchen is near Bonn! One hellofa long distance collaboration with BSW in Wien!

We stand a better chance of figuring out who 'OM' is, than figuring out the Deutschbein connection...

Regards,

Mark

A thought to this....

As we have seen in the past, there are certain firms that were simply "Stamping" firms.

Best

Chris

Chris,

Makes as much sense as any other explanation. I still look at Juncker products. They sold their Luft badges to Deumer, and more specifically IMME. The new makermarks were stamped on the Juncker badges.

Deutschbein...... German 'pants' or 'legs'.... ? WTF is that all about!

Mark

Hello All,

Haven't seen or heard much about the infamous Deutschbein Pilot Badge recently. If they were fake, I guess we would be seeing more of them by now. Questions, comments.....

Regards,

Mark

The swastika and date have no paint or were polished. Was this done by the wearer or could these be purcahsed this way?

Certainly not purchased or awarded that way. I would say 'hand tailored' by the owner.

mark

It's killing me, that no one is claiming it! I realize that not everyone in the world logs into the GMAC everyday, but what a great combination of awards...... Spanish Pilot's Wings, C Certificate, Bomber Spange, Prague castle Bar, Spanish Cross with Swords, Sports Badge, EK1 ...... oh, and the RPB.

Mark

Hello Folks,

I need your help. I am posting a great portrait, which shows clearly the Luftwaffe Retired Pilot's Badge 'in wear'. Does anyone on the Forum here, either OWN this photo, or know WHO DOES? I believe that this photo was sold on ebay within the last year or two.

Secondly, does anyone have any Portrait or Photo, showing the Retired Pilot Badge 'in wear'? These photos are needed for a Luftwaffe Badge book which is being presently organized.

Thanks for any help you can provide,

Mark

It is sometimes important to correctly translate quotes in order not to miss the finesses of which is stated. German almost is my second language.

Thank you Wilco. I'm still not sure what to make of the statement, but I appreciate the translation. I guess that without the photo, the statement is a statement.

Mark

Quote from the article:

"Von einiger zeit wurde mir von einem Sammler ein Bild, bsw. ein Abzug von enem Originalbild zur Verf?gung gestellt, welches einen Soldaten der Division "Hermann G?ring" zeigt!! Dieser tr?gt unter anderem auch eine Nahkasmpfspange der Luftwaffe. Dies ist vohl erstmals eine Fotografie, welche dokumentiert, dass die Nahkampfspange der Luftwaffe auch noch ausgeh?ndigt und getragen wurde."

As we all know, a lot of things can happen in 7 years and apparently Herr D?rr has revised his previous view. I don't know if these findings are correct or not, but I thought it would be interesting for this forum to know.

cheers

Peter

Hi Peter,

I am aware that Herr Dorr has a revised Edition. My German is poor ... can you summarize the text you quoted above, please? Have you found any specific mention as to (regarding the Luft CCC and Panzer badges) what his new opinion is, or what he has corrected from the first book? Not trying to be challenging here, but am honestly curious as to any new info that he has found, which would change his viewpoint, one way or the other!

I guess people are still buying these badges, when they rear their ugly heads!

Regards,

Mark

I'm working in the attic today and don't have too much time for discussion here, but turn to pages 78 - 84 of Manfred Dorr's first edition (1996) Die Trager der Nahkampfspange in Gold. He addresses the Luftwaffe NKS and Luft Panzer Assault badges, showing period rules concerning the award, and period images of the proposed badge. (As an aside, I don't believe that they were ever struck. IMHO.)

More importantly, he shows Award Docs (to Wilhelm Endres of 7./Fallschirm-Jager Regiment 6) for Endres' DK, his Gold Wound Badge, and his III Stuffe der Nahkampfspange, along with a telegram dated 1. Marz 1945, discussing the Gold NKS. All references are to the Heer version of the award.

Regards,

Mark

I have never seen an unquestioned example. I could be wrong but I think that these are like the Luftwaffe Panzer Assault Badge. Maybe awarded on paper only?

Paul,

It was definately awarded on paper, even to the level of the Gold Presentation NKSiG. Manfred Dorr's reference shows evidence of Luft personnel being awarded the Luft CCC (paper ONLY). Through the end of the war, they were presented the Heer NKS. No evidence suggests that anything else was ever made.

The difference lies between awarded and presented.

Regards,

Mark

Sorry, double post.

I thought that LW Ground forces used the Heer Close Combat Clasp.

Paul,

I agree with you. I think most others would too. No evidence exists that the Luft CCC Badge was ever presented. To aver otherwise is a bit of a stretch.

Regards,

Mark

Prosper,

Did either you, or Eric, ever come up with a production 'number', for the Type One Badge? Based on what's on the streets today, I'd be surprised if more than 100 were made.

Regards,

Mark

To reinforce the same die theory between the Type II and Type IIIs: