Eduardo

A very interesting view of the mail square of Mechelen, Belgium. German soldiers and Belgian prisioners.

Rick, I understand your point of view and as a historian I will have to weight all the literature before comming up with final conclusions. As you say propaganda is part of the war itself. My wife is the daughter of a Colombian officer who died at the age of 26 in 1950. "Conservadores" and "Liberales" were the ones bleeding Colombia at the time. He was ambushed, killed and literally choped to pieces. My father in law family were Conservadores while his wife's family was Liberal. I know that the grandmother on the maternal side told my wife at the age of seven that her father used to throw the babies of the Liberales from an helicopter so that his soldiers would receive them in their bayonets. I have never heard worst atrocity and even worst when told by the grandmother to a seven years old girl. Research on the subject finds no evidence of something like that ever occured. I guess they not even had helicopters at the time. So passions are awaken and exagerations are multiplied. I keep this in mind while researching. In my work I am more interested in the fact that the brave Belgians stoped the Germans specially in Liege enough time to let the Allies get into possition. Eduardo

Of course there is always exageration and propaganda but the parragraph of the exerpt on Jeff Lipkes book mentioned above is meaningfull: "Finally we get two chapters on the wartime and post-war denials that took place both in Germany and in the vistorious powers. Lipkes clearly traces the series of distortions that passed as evidence amongst atrocity deniers and demolishes them in some detail. Most telling is the difference between wartime German efforts, which focused on justifying the actions of the German army in August 1914, and postwar efforts which began to deny those same actions had even happened." Lipkes study has been done 90 years of the events and he comes up with a fresh view. Can's say more of his work because I am still waiting for my copy. Thanks Jeff for the reference. Although my History Thesis was on the Flemish presence in South America, I cannot read Dutch. My languages are in this order: Spanish, English and French. But will send the clipping to a cousin in Tongeren. Eduardo

Thanks Guy for the interesting reference. I wonder if it mis possible to get copies (even photocopies) of the books mentioned. Otherwise I will have to wait till my next trip to Belgium and that mught be only in a few years. I have cousins living in Tongeren so I could also ask them to search for the book that I am sure could be found at the local library. Eduardo

This is a view of what is left of the buildings in front of the university from which, it was argued, some civilians shot their guns. According to Toynbee, it was one group of German soldiers who had sacked the wine from the sellers nearby and had been drinking it, who were the ones responsible for the shooting. The result, besides some Belgians and even some Spanish students shot, was the destruction of the buildings shown here. The victorious officers lined up for the picture. Eduardo

As a historian myself I know well that in the heath of the moment and the need for propaganda can make the writters exagerate and even invent - when necesary - these horrible stories of crimes to babies, women, priests and nuns. Ussually they pay good dividends. Non the less I have to balance the facts. Arnold Toynbee's rigurosity cannot be dismised just arguing "propaganda". In 2007, Jeff Lipkes has published with "Leuven University Press" his book "Rehersals- The German Army in Belgium, August 14. The review of the book says: "Lipkes beguins with a chapter on the German ultimatum to Belgium, and the response to it, before mooving on to look at the actual atrocities in great detail... " "Having established what happened, Lipkes then attemps to explain why it happened, looking at the various reasons given by Germans at the time (mostly concentrating on apparent attaks by Belgian civilians). He also examines the pre-war attitude of the German army, which goes a long way to explain their activities in 1914." "Finally we get two chapters on the wartime and post-war denials that took place both in Germany and in the vistorious powers. Lipkes clearly traces the series of distortions that passed as evidence amongst atrocity deniers and demolishes them in some detail. Most telling is the difference between wartime German efforts, which focused on justifying the actions of the German army in August 1914, and postwar efforts which began to deny those same actions had even happened." The complete rewiew is in: http://www.historyofwar.org/bookpage/lipkes_rehearsals.html I am not so sure if the propaganda of 1914 was what made nobody pay attention to the "real" atrocities of the next war. It is interesting that exactly 90 years after the publication of Toynbee's "Terrorismo alem?n en Belgica" translation, which I originally mentioned, Jeff Lipkes, with the baking of Leuven University Press, seems to come out with the same results. Must say, though, that have just ordered Lipkes book and am eagerly waiting its arrival to read it. Probably after reading the book I might be able to have a more proper judgment and correct some of my present day views. Eduardo

Reading Arnold Toynbees "German Terrorism in Belgium" I find that the troops entered the city of Tongeren on the 18th, August but have not been able to find more information as to what hapened in That city. I Quote Toynbee (and translate freely because my copy is in Spanish): "In the event that the civilian population should shoot their weapons at soldiers of the German Army, one third of the populations would be shot. In Tongeren, on 18 August the Germans put in practice their threat. The population was taken in bulk out of the city and the city was sacked sistematically. 17 civilians at least were murdered (including a 12 years old boy) and a few houses were burnt. A German soldier wrote in his diary: On August 18 we arrived at Tongeren. Here we also found complete destruction. Something unique in our profesion (Toynbee explains this soldier was a glass producer). Another ones writes: Tongeren, August 19. A large nunber of houses have been sacked by our cavalry. A letter wrote by an Army medical doctor and captured by the Belgians explains the pretext used to do all that. 'Belgians are the sole responsible for the devastation of their country. ... In Tongeren we were atacked by the population, in the evening when it was already dark. We exchanged some shots because we were exposed to fire from the four sides. Fortunately we had only one wounded, who died next day. We killed two women and the men were shot next day'. Nothing contradicts here what the Belgians said in regard that the shots were made by the Germans themselves." I have not been able to find any other reference to Tongeren. Would like to know where can I read some more. Eduardo

The fort of Loncin near Ans, Liege was one of the forts arround Liege which hold the German invasion long enough to give the British and the French time to organize their defense. General Leman was captured inconcient among the ruble of the destroyed fort of Loncin. The defence had been so brave that the invaders allowed him to keep his sword.

Here goes another card of Liege. This time a temporary bridge built with boats over the Meuse after the bridges were destroyed in the atempt to delay the Germans in their march to the west. Eduardo

Hello, I am coming back after a long time. Fortunatelly it is because I have much work. In the meantime I have got some new postcards for my collection. Want to start with this one of the German troops inside the old palace of the Princes Eveques in Liege.

Hello Brooks, Sorry for not answering before. I have been out of Lima for the holydays and am just back. Yes Playle is a wonderfull store for postcards. I have bought many for my World War I collection from them. Also many for my Peruvian and Belgian collections. Thank you very much and sorry for not having answered before. Eduardo

And here a view of my ancestral town, Dinant, Belgium, destroyed. The dome of the church has disapeared. Eduardo.

After almost two months I am back with some new postcards. Here I include two cards from Vis?, the first Belgian town invaded by the German Army in 1914. Eduardo

This is my last one tonight. A beautifull and colorfull card printed in Viena by "Buchdrukerei "Industrie". Shows German Adm, Alfred von Tirpitz; Adm. Anton Haus, Commander in Chief of the Imperial Austrian Navy (1913-17) and Erzherzog Leopold Salvator. Thanks to Glenn, Mike Dwyer and Naxos of this forum I was able to find the identity of the three. A note by Naxos which I add here, gives a logical explanation for the production of this odd card. "Since two out of three are Navy personalities, I think the flags are for the great navy battles at Skagerrak (Battle of Jutland) and at the Dardanellen (Dardanelles). As well as indicating the two major allies of Austria." Eduardo

The 4th of July 1918 in Paris. Loyd George in the center. The card was printed and edited by E Le Deley in Paris.

The Cathedral of Reims in fire during the battle n 19, September 1914. This card was Edited by "Bandet", and has no other reference.

Some trenches in the north. This postcard by Charles Ledieu from Arras and printed in Paris, shows some "Rabbit holes" made by the soldiers at Maraeuil, (pas-de-Calais).

Another Belgian related card, this one printed by "STA" without any other reference, I guess was published in Italy since the first caption is in Italian. The second caption is in French and the free translation is: "The desperate defence of the Belgians. New supplies for the fortresses".

Not a photograph but an artist interpretation, this card of the serie "Panorama of the Battle of Yser" by A. Bastian has the caption in the back: "Nieuport. Fire of the Lobbestal's tavern. The las howitzer shels. October 16th. 1914. It was printed and published by Imp. S.A. "Notre Pays" at Brussels.

This card shows the destruction of the Belgian city of Dranoutre in West Flanders. "The ruins at Dranoutre" is the caption and "Houses in ruins" is the sub caption. Printed by Ern. Thill in Brussels and published by Nels.

This is my first card related to the Russian army. Printed in Paris by E. Le Deley and dated 1914. The second serie dedicated to "L'Arm?e Russe. Shows "the Russian artilery starting to take its possitions". Eduardo

Hello to all who have answered. I don't collect those pictures. It was send to me as an extra with some postcards I bought, and just put it in the forum in case someone could be interested in researching something about it. If there is any forum member interested just send me your address by PM and I will send the photo as I have done before. Eduardo

Thanks for the answers. As offered I have tried to make better images. I do not use a camara but a CanoScan D646U. Let's hope this time something can be seen in it that could give a clue. Eduardo

OK Paul, I will do it tonight. In any case I know there is a limit to the size so I will experiment a little. Meanwhile I include a detail of the young officer in the felt of the pic.

Although I collect only postcards, I received this picture as a gift. I find it to be a good document for it shows what seems to be a complete family profiting of their get together. I guess these oportunities were not common during the war years. It impreses me the older lady's face. Calm but it is possible to read that she is worried and tense. The back of the picture has some pencil script which I think might be the names. Here it goes and will thank any extra information. Eduardo