hunyadi

This is an interesting photo of Artillery Officers on camels in the Sianai battles of WW1

Lets not forget the Boxer Rebellion - marine troops from the KUK Maria Theresia

There were also some Hungarians who participated in the Boer War

And there was also the Italian - Hungarian Legion that operated between 1848 to 1866 (?)

This next one is a pleasant surprise - look at those foreign awards! Between 1861-1867 there was a Mexican Expiditionary Force.

All of these scans come from the book 'A Magyar Katona Vitezsegnek Ezer Eve'. The book is a comprehensive account of the 'Knights' of Hungarian history. Unfortunatly I only have the second volume which goes up to 1918, though several photos are from the 1920's. There is no publish date in the volume, but seeing as how the Order of the Vitez was created in 1922, its safe to assume it was publihsed in the 1920's - perhapes even the early 30's.

What is interesting is the photos of some interesting Hungarains in the AH Army in odd places.

First one is Col. Zagonyi Karoly who led troops in the battle of Springfield Missouri on Oct 25th, 1861. My ancestor was on the opposite side and clearly so when Zagony cried out to his men 'Come On! Old Kentuck! I'm With You!'. According to the book (from what I can roughly translate) was Zagony participated in the 1848-49 war of independance, but became ill before he saw any action. Imigrating to the USA after the war he then took life up as a Union officer during the American Civil War. He survived the war and died in peace.

Looks like someone grabbed it up early - hopefuly they got all the items back together.

Hello all -

Its a one sided embroidered banner with a 'pillowed' coat of arms. Roughly translated it reads

"Steel and Machine Industry Ministry"

"Manager of Electrical Fixtures"

(coat of arms)

"Year of 1953"

"Civil Defense Military Maneuvers II Place Winner"

So its a banner to hang on the wall recognizing the efforts of a factory manager in his work with the 1953 military execrcises.

Slightly Its interesting that its awarded to the manager of light switches. There is a common joke among the military should anyone invade Hungary 'Would the last soldeir to leave the country please turn off the lights!'

GO - GO - GO!!!!!

Thanks for the link! Very impressive - but I like the $2 price per each! Now off to find some of these....

Thanks to all for the confirmation of these pieces - any explinations for the production of the 'starback' and the 'displaced ring'?

Very nice minis - any more to show?! Did they ever make one for the partisan stars?

I wish the Hugarian Peoples Republic would have followed the example with the neighbors to the south in that regard! (some people were able to get minis for wear, but not in any ammounts - a mini HUPR award will run you more than the award itself in many cases!)

Second one...

Went to the local coin show today and I found these - could not pass them up - so please tell me these are fakes so I can have a better conscious about what I paid for them! First one -

I am more convinced than ever that this is an S&L piece. The quality of the guilding, the suspension ring, etc... just shouts at me that this was made well after 1945. The miniatures (15mm) that I have in catalogues are of a differnt quality - still its one that I would not pass up! Its a keeper.

No problem at all, because it is no Iron Cross and cannot be. It's a Prussian Kriegerverdienstmedaille, and these were never worn on 1st place. Austrian (and other foreign) NCOs got no Iron Crosses ...

That makes more sense...had forgotten about that little one...

I think it only fair to state that the Hungarian award is probably the original mini he got during his service in WW2.

As obtaining one after WW2 would be nigh impossible.

Kevin in Deva.

Hi Kevin -

I would highly doubt that as minis were not given out with the award during WW2, in fact mini's during WW2 for Hungarian awards are almost not existant from this period and were private purchases (and it seems only the well to do ever bothered to get one - for every 25 imperial minis I might find a WW2 mini for a chain . I would find it hard to believe that he would have had a mini before the resurgance of the 1957 awards or that this one is a wartime product. A year ago I met a respectable collector who showed me his collection of the Orders of Merit. In the collection were some of these German made Hungarian awards. They were almost identical to the Hungarian produced items, but with a few die variations, he claimed that these had been made by S&L after the war for Hungarian Germans who had been deported to Germany. Later I heard that Godet was also making a few after the war from another source. (but the ones he was showing me were fill sized and not the minis). Of course there was no way for me to confim these tales, but it seems probable as the communists were eager to get rid of the 'B' List - a list of undesireable characters in the military and public service who were a little too 'anti-Stalinist' for their liking. Out of fear many families with German sounding names, changed thier names to avoid deportation. Many of the officer corps who had obtained valor awards were among the B-list. Also - as many Germans were decorated by the Hungarians from Army Group South, it would make some economical sense for Godet or S&L to produce these for the 1957 line-up.

It would be great if we could get a better shot of the item in question before making any more assumptions

WOW! That is a nice one. Even if not complete - I would not be ashamed to have that grouping in my collection. Is it named by chance? Any numbered awards?

Yes - but this is a post 1938 ribbon bar so the German awards would be first not last - also even if this was a pre 1938 bar the EK2 would be after the Wound Medal which was an Austrio-Hungarian award. Also the lack of an Austrian WW1 Commemorative medal and the Hungarian WW1 Commemorative Medal it makes it more suspicious. Just my thoughts.

I would look for additional opinions on these as I am not an expert on what happened after Austria was absorbed into the Reich. The first four ribbons in the first post are 'war ribbons'. These can be for Bravery Medals, FJ Awards, Iron Crown, Signum Laudis, etc... so there is no way to know for certain what went there. What bothers me a bit is the EK2 ribbon before the Wound Ribbon (1 wound) Then the WW1 Cross of Honor w Swords and then the Czech Medal. The combinsation seems a bit odd. If it were pre 1938, then I would suspect the EK would not be before the AH Wound Medal, but this is after 1938 and the EK should then take precidence over the War Ribbons (?) The second one looks OK to me, but these have been turning up faked lately (with these odd hangers that you find on Imperial German medal bars for holding the suspension rings of the medals. The Austrio-Hungarian bars that I have seen and experienced here never seemed to have used these devices in any way as medals were of the tri-fold type and mounded on the medal bars in a differnt manner.) I would inspect these with a black-light if you have them.

Thanks Hunyadi

Did a quick google search, I sure would like to get the full sized pin back of the Hungarian Order of Merit.

I guess thats another one for the wish list

Eric

You and me both! If I had been smart I would have gotten one five years ago!

As for the issue of being a 57'er. After the war there were some 200,000 or so Hungarian / Germans (Hungarians with German ancestors or parents, German sounding names, etc...) who were deported between 1946 and 1948. Many of these had served with the Hungarian Army and as a result of their "Horthy" ties - their citizenship was stripped and their rights were revoked. Many who had served and were decroated went to Germany where (I believe S&L and perhaps Godet) produced post-war copies of these - it would seem logical that they also made minis for such bars.

The award is the Hungarian Order of Merit Knights Cross with swords and war ribbon. This is a rather high award as they had several grades of the Bravery medals (NCOs and Other Ranks) and the Signum Laudis (Officers). But the Knights Cross is something along the lines of the EK1 to the German Cross in Gold. With swords its an award for being there and doing something extraordinary. My guess is that this bar belinged to someone in either the 26th Inf Div, 168th Inf Div or the 700th Panzer Verband.

If its not fabricated then I would lay bets on it being a 'Don River Front' grouping. Still - WOW!

Hi John -

Please do!

This is an original, but its from the 1980's when they used a cold enamel. It is my belief that these were Old Stock leftovers that the State mint sold to the public a couple of years ago.