hunyadi

Details

Detail of the reverse of the unifrom

As it was not a bad Easter day and the lighting was good I took out the camera and took a few shots of my Bulgarian WW2 uniform. I believe that this is the M39 version of an infantry officer.

The two awards were added by me - originally it came with the order of merit 5th class - one with the crown and one without... I added the ones seen here.

The shooting award was already on the uniform and it looks like it had been there a while - no loops - simply stuck thru the pocket

Questions remain as the medals that came with the unform were of the WW1 variety with the peacetime ribbons - does this make any sense? I would assume that an offcier with an M39 would have been a bit "old" when the war began to be a captain...

Greg - nice 1953 Letter - Number combination Sztahanovista. As you are probably aware - the chain is short a few links on the one side. Still a very nice and hard to obtain variation

Very nice example in an early case

Hi Rick - as time progresses - more things are learned - I have several examples now with the sky blue (egshell blue?) colored enameled center - the porblem also arose from the Large Hungarian Medals Book, where it shows the dark enamel form and the first set of these that I ran across had the story about the pre 1957 items being the darker blue while the post are almost always the egshell blue - though I have one example of the 1957 form with the darker enamel - confused yet - me too! Anyhow dont discredit these right off hand - though it is easy to convert a post 1957 form. The onlt thing that disturbs me about this example is the darker enameled center of the crest - In all of my examples the enamel in the center of the crest is the same as the center field - can we see the reverse and the rivets?

Jeff - to my knowledge there have not been any reproductions - yet - the Hungarians are excelent at manufacturing enameled items BTW... as for a list of recipients - Cimbineus has the best chance of finding that at the national archives - its off limits to anyone but Hungarian national citizens...I tried, I tried and I tried... Its also where there is probably a complete list of the Partiszan recipients... :whistle:

I just noticed that the ribbon bar for the silver grade looked a little funny - its the ribbon for the post 1963 15 year service medal. I also just checked my ribbon bin and I dont have a correct one for you either....

Jeff - no one is safe anymore... now if only more of the Rakosi uniforms would come to the USA market....

Nice example Rick!

I am pretty convinced that these brightly colored unnumbered miniatures are from the 1983 series, but as Gordon stated - there is not much to go on. I think that hundreds of these were made at the state mint for the 1983 badges and then the state mint sold them to collectors who then "added" the unnumbered minis to help complted the sets. Still they are nice sets and I have had several come to me in this manner.

Nice complete set Rick - the silver and bronze are the hardest to find Can you post an image of the bottom scuff plates of the cases? Do the inserts come out?

:jumping:

:unsure:

Insignia and waht looks like a durty interior

the skull and boards

From the favorite site that everyone loves shopping at - we find these. It just seems too good to be true that a uniform like this would survive and be for sale? Good - bad or ugly?

Here is the Artillery badge - the uniforms do "look" like the M1945 Hungarian uniforms with the Bocskai hat, but now that I have this one I also notice the little triangle cap badges which are not Hungarian...

Recently I got these at the favorite auction house with some interesting Hungarian badges. I had seen one of these badges in Hungary before and was "told" it was a 1945 "proficiency" badge for the 6th Hungarian Division formed at the ending days of the war - the Zinc contruction made that seem plausable. However this "artillery" badge also came with the second badge. The reverse and the pin sysytem are identical so the source is probably the same - however the second badge has Greek writing on it and the dates 1757-1798. No idea what that is for??? Of these are Greek it would make some sense for them to appear in Hungary after the war as Hungary took in many Communist refugees during the Greek Civil War. Any help in to what I have here?

I still remain a bit bumbfounded at the makers mark - yet - cant seem to find a similar die. The most pronounced is the detail of the hair. Is is possible that "Kautsch" made another die perhaps later as Enzo pointed out? Making it a plausable 1920-30's strike - anyone out there have a similar large silver or gold example with the same die characteristics?

Aiiiii!!!!

That is what i want this year!! Bravo.

How much do these go for these days?

Jeff - These are soooo rare its hard to say how much one would go for. There was the Order of the Red Banner (military version) that sold at auction in Vienna for about 1000 euro if I recall from three years ago. I was lucky to even hold one of these in my hand for a week and get a photograph of it for the book. being used for only one year with a "recall" stipulation meant that many of these were returned to the mint and were probably distroyed with a few locked away for archival means. Even finding the 1954 version is near impossible - and the 1957 version is hard to find on the open market.

Thanks for sharing this one with us Cimbineus!

Ok - so now I am a bit worried - this was paosted when I got mine and folks seem to thing the soldered ring is OK - had to do another take and notice.... http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=28609&st=0&p=270018&hl=Budapest&fromsearch=1&#entry270018

Also the rim on the reverse -????? :unsure:

Very nice example - first one that I have seen with the case! Now if we could find some formal documents Question on the case - what does the bottom scuff plate look like and is there a recess in the face of the interior for the ribbon bar? (is there anything you dont have from the HUPR?)

In all the years that I lived there I only took the time to buy one of these... and it has nearly the same finish - but as Alfred just pointed out to me and I had to take it out and look - - yep the ring is different.

Also look at the rim on the reverse - it seems to be on only a section of it - not all the way around.

Based on different sources that presumably happened in 1969 or in 1970, but the country concerned was not the USA. As far as I know that was France (90%) or Sweden (10%).

No, I did not suggest anything like that. A simply tried to worn all of you about an existing danger bumping into fake medals of that kind. (And, please, remember: the more colourful the story, the bigger the danger!)

Most probably those lose pieces were produced later, but in most of the cases with the original tools at the National Mint in Budapest in the early '90s. That is why one cannot make any differences between them. (I even do not know how to call those medals „after-produced", or …?)

cimbineus

(P.S.: Look at the ribbon on the first Hero Star, please. The Hungarian tricolour is red-white-green and not vice versa. I am sure that this piece simply could not be in a demonstration box at that time with such a mistake.)

Cimbineus -

So the "prototype" is a forgery? I can see how the ribbon is a mistake and I think it looks obvious that the ribbon was removed at one point and then possibly resewn on by mistake - I have always wondered about this since purchasing it - so in your opinion the "prototype" is a fantasy piece - or since you seem to have more knowledge about these - do you know of their existance? Several collectors there in Hungary had the same story it seems - so I dont know what to believe....

As for the HUPR boxed sets if I recall in talking to the curator at the Military Museum he left me with the understanding that these came in the early 1980's? This would coincied with a growing fears within the military strategists of a WW3...

What was the year that the note was released questioning the Hungarian justification of creating these awards. From the US perspective - I have a good reason as to why and I wonder if it coincides? Are you also explaining that the example I posted is perhaps a reproduction?

Thanks Theodor - ! I hipe there may be something in the archives sending a PM