David Gregory

The dagger is very attractive and bears an excellent inscription. In today's politically correct world, it certainly reflects a view of the world from an age gone by.

Alexander (Field Marshal)

U. M. Biverbruck (?)

A. Bruck (?)

A. Harris

O. Littleton (?)

B. L. Montgomery

D. Tovey (?)

B. Freizer (?)

T. L. Mallory

G. D. Krirar (from Canada) (?)

Dave,

The names should probably read as follows:

Alexander (Field Marshal)

U. M. Beaverbrook

A. Brook

A. Harris

O. Littleton (?)

B. L. Montgomery

D. Tovey (?)

B. Frazer

T. L. Mallory

G. D. Crerar (from Canada)

David

Very nice. That is the stamp that I failed to recognise from the poor quality image shown by the seller.

Glenn J will almost certainly be able to tell you more about the unit and its whereabouts.

Definitely worth discussing over a meal and few beers in a couple of weeks.

I used to have an example each of the Mk II (1907), Mk III (1917) and Mk IV (forget which year) many years ago on my FAC in the UK. They were lovely rifles and I enjoyed shooting them. The Mk III is still in use by Indian military police in provincial areas. I saw several being carried by guards at Poona airport a couple of years ago.

A friend of mine had a jungle carbine version (Mk V?), which kicked like a mule and had a muzzle flash that ruined your night vision when shooting after dusk.

I can't remember the serial number of my first SLR any more, but it was certainly ingrained in my memory for a few years after I parted with it.

My first impression of the M16 was also its similarity to a plastic toy, but the ammunition is so light that you carry much more of it than 7.62.

A nice deactivated Mk III SMLE is also on my long-term list of items to be acquired (together with an MG08, Kar98a, Karabiner 88, Vickers, etc.).

I like that cross!! Hinge is definately from the 1930s, but I've never seen a cyphered AF with crown I. Klasse. I never knew these existed!! I thought these were only seen as II. Klasse. Also, I've only seen I. Klasse crosses having the date incuse-relief.

Steve,

I like it, too. I completely forgot to mention that I also have a certificate of authenticity from Detlev Niemann confirming that, in his opinion, the pin/hinge arrangement dates from approximately the 1930's or 1940's. To be honest, I don't know what to make of it, other than that it was almost certainly made as a replacement piece to be worn by a veteran some time before 1945.

eBay seller inofout offered a cross on German eBay last year for several thousand Euros. Not surprisingly, it didn't sell. I suspect it was a good one, but the price was just silly.

Patience is not normally one of my virtues, but I hope it will pay off in my search for a good Mecklenburg-Strelitz cross and, even more importantly, more document groups. I am still undecided about the one I returned, but prefer to wait until one turns up that I am completely happy with.

Thanks also to the others for their opinions.

David

Here are some details of the hinge and catch.

[attachmentid=21827]

[attachmentid=21829]

Steve,

I have just checked the images I saved of the cross that I returned to the dealer and see that it is the same one that you show at the beginning of the thread. The specks of patina in the corners of the arms, etc. are identical. On reflection, I should have recognised the cross straight away. I am sure I have seen another one like this on eBay in the last 6 months or so, but I don't have any record of it.

Below are images of a cross that I assume dates from the 1930's. Instead of the usual inscription, it bears the Duke's monogram. If nothing else, it is probably a replacement piece and will do as a filler until I find an earlier one I am happy with.

The iron cross collectors will probably be able to make an educated guess on when it was made based on the pin.

Any comments would be most appreciated.

David

[attachmentid=21824]

[attachmentid=21826]

Although I don't collect any Russian stuff (yet), these are nice items with an interesting blend of Soviet and Imperial designs and motifs.

Where do you find current Russian awards?

Steve,

The close-ups suggest that it doesn't have so much in common with the usual suspects on eBay.

I had one just like this early last year from a dealer here in Germany, and also looked as though it had lost some detail due to polishing. The dealer claimed it came from the estate of a general, but he refused to give me his name since he had promised the family he would not reveal any details in order to prevent them from being pestered by collectors. After having it in hand for a few weeks and discussing it on another forum, I sent it back. It stayed on the dealer's site for at least six months, but now seems to have been sold. I have good scans of it somewhere and will post them when I find them.

One with a slightly different hine/pin arrangement sold just before christmas in eBay auction #6588280661. The seller told me that the cross was part of a large collection of Imperial awards that originally came from J?rg Kalies.

Kai Winkler is offering one as item number 24261 at https://www.nordheideversand.de/ which seems to be slightly different again, especially as far as the obverse detail is concerned.

If I recall correctly, just over 400 crosses were bestowed, so real ones must be pretty rare. Dave Danner shows another type and quotes a maximum of 419 awards on his page at http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria/strelitz.htm

I have a cross that has a pin arrangement which seems to be from the 1930s and a centre disk with the monogram like the "Tapfer und treu" cross on the ribbon, instead of the inscription. I'll post some images of it later.

One day I would like to find an example of this cross that I am happy with and add it to my collection. The hunt continues!

David

Hi Rick

I too would love to see the Strelitzer rolls compiled, but incomplete information makes the task frustrating, I can only imagine!

@David,

What a wonderful Mecklenburg picture and document!! My heart skipped a beat when I saw the photo!

Steve

Steve,

The photo is one of about nine from the estate of Leutnant Rau. When I have identified as many of the faces as possible, I'll post them in a thread on Grenadier-Regiment 89.

The document is part of a small but complete group. I need to find out more about the units to which Pionier Gerlitz belonged and will post all I have on him when I have all the information together.

David

A simple bar but I love it!!

Mecklenburg awards and related documents are my favourite Imperial items. A bar with Schwerin and Strelitz crosses is a cracker.

EEEK. This is not what I was looking forward to.

Rick,

Just to keep you going, I had posted this in the Imperial 2005 Year in Review post. I need to do a bit of homework on the rather obscure unit to which the document holder belonged before I show his whole group.

Perhaps this image will encourage you not to give up. The officer on the left is Leutnant Rau of Mecklenburg Grenadier-Regiment 89. I have not yet identified the other officer. I believe the picture was taken some time in the second half of 1916 near the Somme.

Rau is wearing his EK1 and Mecklenburg-Schwerin KVK1, while the as yet unidentified officer on the right is wearing his EK1 and Mecklenburg-Strelitz Kreuz 1. Klasse f?r Auszeichnung im Kriege "F?r Tapferkeit". With only 419 known awards, this cross belongs in the "rarer than hens teeth" category. The original print shows quite amazing detail.

[attachmentid=21775]

I've also got some Milit?rp?sse and Soldb?cher with Strelitz entries and had hoped you might be able to provide some more information on dates and places. I'll post or PM the details and see if that will perhaps sway your decision.

David

Steve,

There are an awful lot of Imperial pin-back crosses with a pin arrangement similar to this on eBay all the time.

Take a look at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3219 and compare yours.

David

Nice little group.

68. ID was in the Poltawa area in October 1943. Do you have any more from him?

close up of the maker

Paul,

D.R.G.M. is not a maker's mark, but the patent stamp for the catch design.

I posted the following in another thread concerning the DRGM and DRP abbreviations found on many German items:

DRP is the abbreviation for Deutsches Reichspatent, i.e. German Patent, used until a short time after the establishment of the Federal Republic, when the patent system was changed to DBP = Deutsches Bundespatent (German Federal Patent).

DRGM stands for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchsmuster, i.e. utility model or utility patent, later replaced by the DBGM.

Although similar in intent, the patent offered (and still offers) longer protection of design rights than the utility model.

DRP and DRGM marks can still be found on some products manufactured in the early 1950s.

David

Hi Tony,

I can't do any better with the maps, but I'll see what I can find in the regimental histories.

Do you fancy a trip to the area in the not-too-distant future?

David

Tony,

A minor update: 119. I.D. seems to have been replaced at Hooge by 6. bayerische Reserve-Division some time in late June/early July. By the time of the major British attack on 31 July, 22. Reserve-Division was holding the sector south of Hooge and 10. bayerische Infanterie-Division was immediately below it, which suggests that 22. R.D. and/or 10. b.I.D. were facing the area you are interested in during the immediate period before the attack.

I'll check some regimental histories when I get home tonight and post a map of the area (provided my scanner co-operates). The Ehrenb?cher for the Feldartillerie and Fu?artillerie will probably also reveal a bit about the German gunners operating in the are at the time.

David

Tony,

119. Infanterie-Division and 204. Infanterie-Division had been involved in heavy fighting at Hooge in June.

119. I.D. remained in the area, but 204. I.D. was transferred to Upper Elsace by the third week of July. I don't know which unit took its place, but I'll look it up for you this week, and find out which units were south of them.

David

George,

The entry on page 21 indicates that he was employed as a rifleman (Gewehrsch?tze). The German word used for this might be confused with "sniper" by someone not familiar with German military terminology.

As Doug points out, any indication of his use as a sniper would probably be associated with entries for the issue of an appropriate scoped rifle in his Soldbuch, and possibly a sniper training course in his Wehrpass. He probably served as an ordinary infantryman.

At the time of his death, Infanterie-Regiment 458 was part of 258. Infanterie-Division with Army Group Centre.

David

Thanks David! About the Bulgarian order, they are available from time to time, I see from time to time pieces like the one in my picture. Though I have no idea about the price /did not purchase the one in the picture, it's a family possession/. During the week I'll have a look around and will tell you.

Theodor,

I am not in a hurry, but thank you in advance for anything you can do.

David

Theodor,

For the first cross in your collection, that is an excellent start.

The presentation of awards from the four countries is something I like very much and I am also trying to obtain representative examples of typical awards by the allies to match them.

Is it hard to find an example of the Bulgarian pin-back cross in your country? I have been looking for one for some time, but they do not seem to turn up anywhere.

Best wishes for the New Year,

David

Interestingly this one is a fake........

Are these being faked or is it a poor copy or version produced by/for a third-world army?

Now that I have been able to overcome the stunning and somewhat rare combination of awards shown by Andreas above, I think that either one of these must be among my better finds of 2005. They both belong to groups and are not single "lost" documents.

Hessen Kriegerehrenzeichen in Eisen. As a bravery award for front-line service with only some 2000 bestowals, it makes the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross look common by comparison:

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Mecklenburg-Strelitz Kreuz f?r Auszeichnung im Kriege, "Tapfer und Treu". A little more common than the Hessen document shown above, but still in the "hens' teeth" league for rarity:

[attachmentid=21116]

The groups to which the above documents belong, as well as a couple of L?beck Hanseatenkreuz groups, will have to wait until I have done a bit more homework on their recipients.

Best wishes for the New Year,

David

This would be one of my favorite medal bar that came home in 2005. all decorations made by Godet in gold. Well, except the iron cross, of course.

'ckinell

Thank you very much - these are the things you will never learn on german schools....

YUK = Bah/Igitt