David Gregory
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Posts posted by David Gregory
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The shooting club still exists and has its own website at http://www.sv-wissen.de/start.html
Try contacting them and ask if they have any information on membership history. They might even appreciate an interest in their history.
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The numbers of the pin to which the mini is attached are the DRGM registered design reference for the pin.
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Is he wearing his Swastika awarded RK? Or a 1957 version in the picture?
Remy Schrijnen lives very close to me and he has a reputation for wearing his original cross, whatever the consequences.
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Interesting the way the swords are attached to the cross. Very nice items.
I think this style of suspension is typical for crosses made by the Stuttgart Mint.
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I am not sure what posterity wil do with all my "stuff", but for the sake of self-preservation I tag almost everything, try to store groups together and have started cataloguing everything I have acquired so far.
Quite apart from helping anyone else to sort out what is there, it also helps me to find things that would otherwise vanish into storage boxes and files and never see the light of day for months or even years.
At least with the Thies auctions most buyers are aware of which collections the items came from, so collectors who do their homework will be able to target former groups if they want to. A complete lack of interest on the part of most sellers and woefully inadequate images or descriptions usually make it impossible to join up the dots, let alone see them.
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Stogieman,
My pleasure. At the same time, I am trying to get my head around the cryptical abbreviations for Imperial awards as used in rank lists, etc.
Once I've mastered all the glyphs, I'll learn the special handshakes and other secret signs.
David
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Don,
I considered that explanation but discounted it for the following reasons.
If the red and white ribbon were for the Hessisches Kriegsehrenzeichen, which from the award documents I have seen I understand was generally for services rendered on the home front, then it seems unlikely that it would be worn on the same bar as the other Hessen award, unless that were for a non-com grade of the Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen (e.g. for merit or faithful service) or the Milit?r-Sanit?ts-Kreuz worn on the blue ribbon for font-line service.
The Waldeck ribbon features a sword device, which also contradicts the non-com status for the Kriegsehrenzeichen.
Perhaps my conclusion is a bit simplistic, but the TWM seemed more logical to me. It also matches the following bar, which tempts me to identify it as a TWM:
David
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The colours of the sewing threads used on the back of the longer bar shows a certain attention to detail.
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These two bars might look as they could have belonged to the same man at different times, but they came from quite different sources.
When I posted them on the WA forum, Daniel Krause offered the explanation that the longer bar may have belonged to an NCO from a technical branch who served with a W?rttemberg unit and later received his Saxon awards after being promoted to officer status.
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A simple bar worn by a brave Saxon after 1934 who was awarded the EK2, silver medal of the Military Order of St. Henry, the Friedrich-August and the Frontk?mper-Ehrenkreuz.
What would be the rank list abbreviation for the silver and gold medals of the Military Order of St. Henry?
[attachmentid=17252]
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Any clues as to the colour of the backing cloth (army or navy?) or was this simply up to the wearer for Frack bars?
[attachmentid=17251]
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And the same arrangement on a Frack bar:
[attachmentid=17249]
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Its smaller brother that came with it at least seems to have seen some use:
[attachmentid=17247]
[attachmentid=17248]
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An unused EK2 and Friedrichs-Orden bar. The clips are hidden beneath the folds of the ribbons.
[attachmentid=17245]
The back is covered with silk:
[attachmentid=17246]
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A single buttonhole ribbon:
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A typical other ranks or NCO bar. The merit medal seems to be real silver, the EK ring is marked CD 800 and the DA is blackened.
[attachmentid=17241]
[attachmentid=17242]
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And this Waldeck and Hessen ribbon bar also features the TWM ribbon:
[attachmentid=17239]
[attachmentid=17240]
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The quality of the back is consistent with that of the front:
[attachmentid=17237]
A view from the side shows just how thick it is:
[attachmentid=17238]
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Although I don't yet have any documents to men that received this award, this example has joined my small collection of pinback awards.
It seems to be made of plated brass and the paint finish can only be described as "cheap".
[attachmentid=17236]
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DRP is the abbreviation for Deutsches Reichspatent, i.e. German Patent, used until a short time after the establishment of the Federal Republic, when the patent system was changed to DBP = Deutsches Bundespatent (German Federal Patent).
DRGM stands for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchsmuster, i.e. utility model or utility patent, later replaced by the DBGM.
Although similar in intent, the patent offered (and still offers) longer protection of design rights than the utility model.
DRP and DRGM marks can still be found on some products manufactured in the early 1950s.
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Stogieman is right about the colours of the devices.
The poor daylight in which I took the photos this afternoon renders the colours rather badly, which are not easy to discern due to the wear it displays in any case. A close inspection of the bar under bright light shows that the colours are just as he suggests.
If these device colours are correct, and not the result of the "salty" condition of the bar, what grades do the ribbons represent?
Is the Reuss award the Silver Merit Medal with Swords bestowed to the first owner of the bar as an NCO? Or is it the third or fourth class of the Honour Cross? Would a Feldwebelleutnant have received the fourth class of the Honour Cross or the Gold Merit Medal with Swords? What colour would the devices have been in those cases?
An NCO awarded the Silver Merit Medal with Swords might have received the Knights Crosses of the Merit and Albert Orders. Does that make sense and do the devoce colours match this combination?
Are any other combinations of awards possible?
Thanks in advance,
David
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...and a serial number too! Very interesting.
The serial number will be the DRGM registered trade mark number.
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And the reverse:
[attachmentid=17209]
And details of the lid:
[attachmentid=17210]
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Here is a single example of a cased Silver Merit Medal with Swords.
[attachmentid=17206]
The obverse:
[attachmentid=17207]
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Imperial fakes
in Germany: Imperial: The Orders, Decorations and Medals of The Imperial German States
Posted
Take a look at the W?rttemberg cross offered by German eBay seller froschhuettl in auction number 6583443608. Before the images disappear, here is what he is offering:
[attachmentid=17455]
[attachmentid=17456]
[attachmentid=17457]
[attachmentid=17458]
[attachmentid=17459]
The case marked to a Leipzig manufacturer does not make any sense at all for a W?rtemberg award and the cross itself has been identified as a fake on the WAF forum in the past. Has anyone handled one of these before?