David Gregory

Jaques,

The back looks similar to those offered very often by eBay seller baff002, who does not have reputation for good original ribbon bars.

Please bear in mind that this is just my impression, as I am really not in a position to judge whether the bar you show is good or not.

Sorry for making negative comments that I cannot support, but do a search on baff002 and see what you find.

/David

Looking at the amount of militaria available worldwide, I would be tempted to agree that there is a lot more "Nazi" (whatever that might mean to you) stuff around than Imperial. But this may simply be a reflection of what the majority of collectors wnat to have.

However, quite apart from the fact that I find Third Reich history a bit jaded, I prefer militaria from the Imperial era (not just German) for a number of other reasons:

1. There is a much better chance of Imperial militaria being authentic.

2. For me, it is infinitely more attractive, varied and interesting.

3. There is, as yet, very little hype attached to it, which is reflected by the prices Imperial militaria generally commands.

4. There is none of the stigma attached to anything "Nazi".

5. There are so many books and websites on "Nazi" Germany, there seems little left to research. Understanding the background to one obscure Imperial award document will keep you in relatively unknown territory for a long time.

By my personal definition, research involves reading extensive primary and secondary sources and sharing this information with others who have similar interests to find out minor details of unit histories and personal biographies to put "my stuff" into a context.

There are many collectors of Third Reich ("Nazi" if you will) militaria who seem to regard research as comparing a few Internet threads to see if they have actually bought an original item, or yet another carefully crafted fake. Anonymous pieces of "cool" zink don't do much for me.

If you are prepared to do your homework, there is plenty of fascinating Imperial history to be acquired at relatively low cost. Whether you are prepared to do your homework and find out what it represents is another matter.

I will never fully grasp all military aspects of the 24 entities that made up Imperial Germany, but just understanding and collecting the basic awards and the documents of the men that received them keeps me very happy and doesn't have to cost a fortune.

Don't get me wrong, I also have many interesting German documents and related items from the 1933-45 period (I deliberately avoid using the term "Nazi"), but I have stopped actively acquiring them. I am quite happy for the majority of collectors to stay hooked on the bent cross and to leave all the nice and relatively affordable Imperial stuff to me.

Although I collect militaria for the history it represents and the personal stories it can tell and have never considered it an investment, I would be very surprised if Imperial items didn't experience a sharp price increase around 2014, 100 years after the outbreak of The Great War, in much the same way as WW2 items jumped in price after Saving Private Ryan and the 1994 D-Day anniversary.

I don't consider Imperial militaria to be undervalued, because I do not to think of militaria in terms of monetary value. That being said, I do feel Third Reich ("Nazi") items are grossly overpriced, but that is perhaps more a question of supply and demand, and I am not prepared to pay huge sums of money for just another piece of shiny metal with a bent cross.

/David

Jacques,

The back of this ribbon bar seems familiar.

Did this come from German eBay seller baff002?

/David

Tony,

The Matador seems to be from the right period and is the only name that I remember (early influence of Airfix kits).

My only experience of the RCT was sitting in the back of Bedfords and being numbed to sleep by the vibration.

If it were later in the war, it might be something Canadian.

David

Hi Tony,

Looks like an AEC Matador to me.

David

Hi Brian,

In the Milit?r-Wochenblatt notification posted above by Glenn it would seem that Walter succumbed to pleurisy (Brustfellentz?ndung).

In your post no. 10 his cause of death on 29 August 1893 is given as tuberculosis.

Initially I thought that there might have been a translation error somewhere along the line. However, I understand from http://www.chclibrary.org/micromed/00061080.html that tuberculosis can give rise to pluerisy. Do two sources of information give different reasons for his demise, or is part of an explanation missing somewhere?

I am repeatedly amazed at the amount of biographical information that can be found from so many diverse sources and brought together on the Internet.

Keep up the good work showing us your family's background. The personal aspects of military history interest me far more than anonymous pieces of, admittedly very attractive, shiny metal and enamel.

David

Most statistics say that 80% of all men wear theirs on the left.

If cross belts were worn on the other side by the majority at that time, perhaps he is part of the photographic evidence supporting the statistics....

Errr, but perhaps not. Who knows? Something to do with turbulence when riding in formation?

Your answers on a postcard please to ......

Interesting, his web address goes to a Russian language homepage.

←

You can also select German by clicking on the flag symbols.

A "whois" look-up of his domain name reveals Alexander's full name, address and telephone number - he lives in Berlin. However, the site seems to be empty.

Paras simply refer to the rest of the army as "crap hats".

Darrell,

Thanks for that information. I think I saw one of the Pautot marked medals offered on French eBay, but I neglected to add it to my watch list. The price was around EUR 90 before the auction ended.

I pick up Victory medals when the opportunity arises, but I sense myself moving down the slippery slope towards trying to find more. The British, French, Belgian and Italian ones are not difficult to find, but the rest seem to be more elusive. Representative examples from all (or being realistic most) of the nations would be a nice counterpoint to the Imperial awards of the various German states which seem to have crept up on me in recent years.

Cheers,

David

Geoff,

Although I have nothing to back it up, a German collector suggested to me that the DRGM (patented) catch indicated that the badge was made after 1918.

Given that the badge was only instituted in mid-1918, I wouldn't be surpised if very many of the actual badges were issued well after the end of hostilities. It is not unusual to see wound badge award documents dated in the 1930s.

Does the Hammelmann book on wound badges indicate when these types were made?

Cheers,

David

Although I never set out to "get the set", I'm missing the 1914-15 and 1914-1917 crosses. Collecting side lines can become annoying, but I guess that's just one of the things collectors just have to learn to accept.

Can anyone show any more award documents, preferably groups?

Good thread Darrel.

The link you show is interesting, but from my grasp of French I understand that there were different typres of suspension arrangement and minor design details depending on the manufacturer of the pre-1950s type.

Does anyone have any more information on the various types and how to date them?

Specifically, what are the features to identify the type(s) issued for 1914-1918 service or earlier?

Many thanks in advance,

David

After the comments above, I had to take a closer look at my example to check the "fondling" aspect. Normally, my wife ignores me when I am in "gawking at medals" mode, but this time she asked me what was so interesting. Never mind.

This certainly seems to be the most common type of French Victory Medal, but I think I saw one by a different designer recently, i.e. not Morlon. The name, if I recall correctly, began with a P. Can anyone shed any light on this or other types?

Thanks in advance,

David

Mike,

Nice bar. I have one just like it, but without the swords.

The swords might be a fashion statement emphasising front line service as I have seen them used like this before, but those are the largest swords I have seen in a combination like this.

David

If B.B. & Co. was a Turkish company and expected to export any of its products, it would make sense to use Latin alphabet characters for customers outside the Arab-speaking world, rather than something many people would not even recognise as writing, let alone a name.

And a close-up of the cap badge.

Here is a group photo of a Korporalschaft at the recruit depot of Infanterie-Regiment 92 early in WW1.

As someone who tends to use a PDA a lot, especially for entering all sorts of text while on the train, I can appreciate what a lot of work that must have been.

Whenever I read any personal accounts of the fighting at Verdun, I am always strongly reminded of our walks around the battlefield.

The piece above conjours up haunting memories of the cratered woods, grassy ditches around the forts and the darka and damp passages beneath them.

It certainly puts all those coveted shiny objects into perspective.

You have a very nice award and document, Ralph. I have never seen an official award document . Yours is the first informal one I have seen.

The document indicates the award was given to a member of 8. Kompagnie, Infanterie-Regiment 96. The regiment was part of 38. Infanterie-Division fighting on the Eastern front at the time of the award.

IR 96 was from Reuss and, together with the iron cross, the medal was pretty much the standard award to men who served with the regiment or were citizens of the principality of Reuss.

If are looking for one, good luck with the Waldeck equivalent. They are, as Rick indicated, not easy to find.

/David

Chris,

His rank was gunner and he had joined the army as an ungedienter Landsturmmann, meaning he had been assigned to the Landsturm, but had not actually served.

The (F) stands for "fahrende Batterie", as opposed to "reitende Batterie". The "fahrende" designation is far more common, with men travelling on limbers or wagons or marching with the unit.

"Reitende Batterien" had fewer guns, if I recall correctly, and were originally attached to mobile units such as cavalry. The gunners were all mounted and the unit was considered to be able to travel and relocate more quickly than the (F) types.

Cron has some details on pages 144 and 145.

Cheers,

David

Here is a strange one indeed...

A document made out to "Kanonier unged. Ldst. Eugen Caspar der 8.(F)/Res.Felda.Rgt.5......"

Can it be "ungediente Landsturm" ? and would the (F) refer to the type of Gun used in the Arty Batterie?  Feldartillery had field guns and light field howitzers, usually there is no mention in the award doc, but here they have an "F" and I can only think that it has to do with that....

←

Bob,

That is a very nice pre-1934 bar with one of my favourite award combinations (Mecklenburg/Hanseatic cross).

Could you show an image of the stippling on the arms of the Mecklenburg cross, please?

Does it display any file or other finishing marks on the edge?

Many thanks in advance,

David

Can anyone show an example of a Hohenzollern HHOX being worn in the button hole together with a normal EK2 et al medal bar, minus the HHOX of course?

I recently saw an image like this on German eBay, but cannot for the life of me imagine why I didn't buy it or at least add it to my watch list.

Would this be a fashion statement, an officialy recognised wear variant, emphasis of the HHOX or just a "look what I just got" statement?

Thanks in advance,

David

Don,

I cannot comment on the hallmark, but the general details of your medal and that offered by raritaetensammlerclub are worlds apart.

/David

According to Hessenthal & Schreiber the 1914/1918 Kriegserinnerungskreuz of Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha was a commemorative award, but it does not specify whether it was for combatants or non-combatants only.

As I mentioned in the thread showing the award, I have only seen it mounted with a red cross award, so I assume it was given to non-combatants, particularly in view of the fact that Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha had other bravery and merit awards for military personnel.

Whoever has the Nimmergut 4-volume series or a book dedicated to awards of this duchy ought to be able to shed more light on the matter.