avsaribar

For this rosette , there is no way to understand if it is from the french Medal or it is from an Order Of Medjidie .

Mr. Demir is absolutely right . As you can see in his pictures , there is no standardisation in the width of the Green stripes on Medjidie Orders , the only standardisation is "Red Ribbon with Green Stripes " .

So if you see this rosette on Medjidie , it is from Medjidie , if it is on French Ordre Courage , it is from Ordre Pour Courage or it can be from a Royal Order of Cambodia

Yes , Original Crimean Type 5th class . ( As My dear friend Mr. Paul mentioned , it is in very bad condition )

Another ORIGINAL one in the middle below !

Please check the one below , in the middle , it is another ORIGINAL one !

Yes they are ! And a "copy" ribbon .

Probably that case also did NOT belong to it , although i can NOT see , i think the case is 4th or 5th class case but the order is 2nd or 3rd class.

The Medjidie order is Original too.

But easily you can see that , the swords are very low quality , bad casting , bad gold gilt , the sword holes are im-proper , sorry but i can NOT say that they are original swords .

Hello Again Daniel ,

I just post a new topic under the Turkey Section about this matter because i believe it is important for all Turkish / Ottoman Order Collectors .

Best Wishes ,

Avsar Ibar

Hello Paul ,

Yes , i saw it and i do not like it . ( I already wrote it there ... )

Best ,

Avsar Ibar

And Now , an example of FAKE SWORDS !

Best ,

Avsar Ibar

Here i find another GOOD / ORIGINAL example of Swords picture from the Morton & Eden's FAMOUS ANS ( American Numismatic Society ) Sale .

Please check this one too .

Al the best ,

Avsar IBAR

Hello ,

There are many questions about the Swords of the Medjidie and Osmanie Orders so i decide to show the Original ones with examples .

Below , some pictures of perfect Medjidie and Osmanie orders with scimitars .

You can see 2 different kind of original swords on those examples .

Hope they will be useful ..

Best Wishes ,

Avsar Ibar

I will find for you the pictures of the good ones and will put them here .

Hello Daniel ,

Let me begin with the Silver Imtiyaz Medal ( The Big one ) , it is an Ottoman Mint made one but the swords on it altough they are original , they are German made , the same situation with the Silver Liyakat Medal's swords . About the Medjidie ( 2nd or 3rd Class one ) it is an Original Medjidie , a last model one probably from a period of year 1900 and later . But honestly i do not like the swords , the quality of the swords , altough the insertation places of the swords are not clear in the picture , i do not like them .

All the best ,

Avsar Ibar

Dear Demir , You wrote ;

" Ottoman Mint in Istanbul was responsible for the medals and I don’t think that they struck medals in different weights because I don’t think that they used a different die for every struck of the same medal. "

But you are wrong because you can see the below examples ; ( There are more as i mentioned on my previous post ... but i just wrote the below ones )

Medal Name : Mr.Eldem's Book - The History of Orders and Medals : Metin Erureten's Ottoman Medals and Orders :

Ayasofya Tamiri AV 66,70 gram ( Page 155 ) AV 62,50 gram ( Page 186 ) DIFFERENCE : 4,2 GRAM

AR 37,40 gram AR 40,3 gram DIFFERENCE : 2,7 GRAM

1850 Tanzimat-i Hayriye AE 387,09 gram ( Page 171 ) AE 524 gram ( Page 188 ) DIFFERENCE : 136,91 GRAM

1833 Hunkar Iskelesi AR 16,04 gram ( Page 148 ) AR 12,3 gram (Page 167 ) DIFFERENCE : 3,74 GRAM

1844 Tahsis-i Ayar AV 50mm 60,79 gram (Page 154 ) AV 50mm 71,8 gram ( Page 181 ) DIFFERENCE : 11,01 GRAM

1840 St. Jean D Acre AV 20,93 gram ( Page 151 ) AV 22,50 gram ( Page 179 ) DIFFERENCE : 1,57 GRAM

AR 14,66 gram AR 16 gram DIFFERENCE : 1,34 GRAM

SILISTRE AV 35,87 gram AV 37,60 gram DIFFERENCE : 1,73 GRAM

KARS AV 35,9 gram AV 38 gram DIFFERENCE : 2,10 GRAM

I do NOT need to write the above information from their book because what i wrote is directly related with my experience but now everybody can see that 2 Major books and all different weights !

Ferman of the Abdulmecid 1844 COULD NOT BRING THE STANDARTIZATION .

I am not talking about the wear caused by handling or time , this is %1 or %2 and acceptable.

What I am talking is the standardization . There is no standardization on the old Ottoman Medals . Maybe because of different mints , maybe because of different molds what ever..

For example , I saw 1831 Cami-i Nusret *Scutari* AR 12,80 Grams , 11,03 Grams , 13,10 grams , I saw reeded edge and plain edge... All original ...

The weight details in the book of Mr.Metin Erureten taken from Examples of 2 collectors collection , one of them Dr.Kazim ( He passed away ) and the other one i do not want to mention the name here now . So , yes they are original but they are what they have .. I mean compare all the weight details * OLD OTTOMAN MEDALS * with the details of the other book which was published by Ottoman Bank Pride and Privilege , History of Ottoman Orders medals and decorations you will see many different ( Not %1 to %2 Worn , time difference ) rates , so is the medals in one of the books are fake ? NO !!!

When you are buying , If you will decide only by weight for thoose old medals , you may miss a good opportunity to buy an Original Medal .

After eighteen sixties , seventies , lets say Sultan Abdulaziz period , the standardization came , so medals such as Plevne , Russian War , Big Imtiyaz , Liyakat , Cedid Girid or 1892 Yemen and much more you can check the weight and decide ....

Sorry to inform you but you can NOT understand the originality of Akka Medals ( And many more old medals from Period II Mahmud to first years of Abdulmecid ) by their weight .

Just wish to mention , they are not medal , they are orders ...

Hello Ray ,

They are Ok , they are not fake but the thing is both of them in-complete . The one with the enamel centre has a needle attached on the reverse which must not be there , there must be Crescent and Star but missing ... The other one is totally problem , it doesnt have any value in that condition , it is just a reverse of a Ottoman Empire's mint made Medjidie order with a fantasy front centre attached .

Last messages i am only informing bad news but what can i do ...

All the best ,

Avsar Ibar

Hello Ray ,

Very small pictures but they look Ok , they are not fake but the thing is both of them in-complete . The first one has a needle attached on the reverse which must not be there , there must be Crescent and Star but missing ... The second one is totally problem , it doesnt have any value in that condition , it is just a reverse of a Ottoman Empire's mint made Medjidie order with a fiction later attached front .

Last messages i am only informing bad news but what can i do ...

All the best ,

Avsar Ibar

Thanks for the info .

Infact your fake is just a cast .

Anyway normally you do not have high possibility to purchase an original Medjidie set with breast star for 100 USD .

Kind Regards ,

Avsar

Dear Hanna ,

I am sorry to inform you but it is an absolute fake .

Could you please inform us from whom you bought it ?

Best Wishes ,

Avsar Ibar

Hello Uwe ,

Yes , they are not offical , you are right but they must be made in the period .

Thoose ones sold on ebay , the Medjidie and the Twm are fantasy ! They made not 100 years ago , probably they made few weeks ago as same as the Osmanie Order sold by the same seller .

That type of swords on the miniature medjidie is fantasy , the upper crescent and star is also a fantasy , you can see that it looks like a Crimean period Crescent and star , ( Crescent with open ends only used in Crimean period Medjidies but in that period there was no scimitars !!! )

Same as the upper part of the TWM miniature , they are all fiction . Nothing never exist as them !

Best ,

Avsar Ibar

Nice Set !

Congratulations !

Hello ,

Again fake items appeared on ebay ! SOME OF THEM VERY INTERESTING , SELLER NAME is " fabercan " from Germany .

item number : 141031319081 FAKE MINIATURE TWM

item number : 141031307761 FAKE MINIATURE MEDJIDIE WITH SWORDS

item number : 141032035605 FAKE MINIATURE IMTIYAZ MEDAL

AND VERY IMPORTANT FAKE OSMANIE ORDER , THIS TYPE JUST APPEARED IN THE MARKET , HE IS SELLING AS GERMAN MADE !!! EBAY ITEM NUMBER : 141032028353

I KINDLY ASK ALL OUR FRIENDS PAY ATTENTION TO THIS SUBJECT !

Best Wishes ,

Avsar

Hello Joseman ,

1 - You understand wrong , the one on the right is fake and the one on the left is real .

2 - Sometimes people bought the fake ones for very expensive prices because they thought that they are original . In my opinion the cost NOTHING .