militaria0815

Hi militaria0815,

That is one sweet bar!

Thanks for posting it.

Regards

Brian

This guy was out of service 1916 - 1918 and got the Ludwig cross around 1917.

Hi Brian,

don`t worry.... the combo is not too odd and absolutely no prblem with the bar....

The Ludwigs cross was given to bavarian soldiers too , not only civilians , it was given out to people THAT COULD NOT EXPECT TO GET ANOTHER BAVARIAN WAR / BRAVERY AWARD - what your two guys indeed did Of course you could get the Ludwigs cross during the war on a desk job and some months later a bravery award at the front after joining a new regiment.... that`s why you see it on bars with other bravery awards too...

Yes, see this little bar:

Komtur, great information! Many thx!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

VERY interesting that you got that one, I didn't think the owner was selling it.

The owner found the items when he cleared out a house basement, he neither collects any kind of medals nor has any knowledge about his greatgreatuncle, so he decided he could use the money better than the medals.

Heiko, what do you mean, is there a problem with the group?

I got this medal bar which has some rare medals on from the winners family. Unfortunately I only have the family name and no other information. I appreciate any help on following questions:

-Family name is Deubert, can this be verfied?

-How many men got the combination of PrMEZ1 and PrMEZ2 during the action in German South-West-Africa?

-Is there a list of the PrMEZ1 winners in SWA/German colonies?

-Is it possible to find out in which unit this guy has served in SWA?

Thanks for all help!

Cross looks good, in my eyes an original item.

Hello Tom Y,

I would say that this is a third class schnalle from Anhalt-Gesamtstaat

as awarded from 1870-1914.

Regards,

Wild Card

Yes it is.

Will do certainly don't want to make it worse. I've seen excellent white enamel restoration jobs but blue enamel I understand has some dangerous ingredients which perhaps is the reason restoration experts shy away. Thanks

Sincerely

Yankee

This is exactly the point. White is very easy and can be done perfectly. But not this old blue enamel.

Greetings

An old Eduard Quellhost knight 2nd class, that has been around the mill. Anybody know of a fine jeweler who can restore this type of enamel work. Alternative is to do nothing and let the piece disintegrate to a skeleton.

I have never met someone who can do this work anymore. Let it like it is, the chance to ruin the item is extremely high. Most pieces are like yours is due to the thin enamel.

It looks ok to me. I have seen ribbon bars with 2 different type sword devices. Perhaps the camera flash caught the swords making them look "new"? In any event i think it looks good.

Matt

Also looks good in my eyes.

Absolutely nothing, no marks.

OK, 3rd model 3rd class, not an item for a serious collection.

How many were awarded?

This is supposed to be 2nd model 2nd class...Is it good cross? Who was the maker (looks like Hemmerle)? What would be the fair price?

Thank you guys.

What silver or maker marks are on the item?

I wonder what happened to the cross when it was returned? Did they destroy it? Or was it disassembled and parts used again?

The jewellery firms did both, depending on the condition of the pieces, however, it was solid gold and was taken into account. One can follow this if one has a look into the history of the Military Max Joseph Order, some pieces were returned, reworced, awarded again and survived from the Napoleonic war into WW1.

That number is surprising. If the MVO followed the basic structure of other awards, the 3rd Class would have been a Major's level award. As generous as they were with the 4th Class, they seen to have been equally stingy with the 3rd.

Excellent info - Many thanks!

Correct, mainly given to Majors and Lieutenat Cornels.

There were around 28.000 4th classes w X, about 750 3rd classes, plus: many 3rd classes were returned after the winner had died.

While Leser was a maker of 3rd classes I have to say I don't like yours. I know there are some things to look for, but don't what they are exactely... other might chime in, I hope.

I would expect gold medaillons, while these here are gilt - see the wider cross arm frame on reverse. A real gilt 3rd class should not have this, from what I've heard.

Silver gilt pieces NEVER have golden middle medaillons, they HAVE TO HAVE wider cross arms, they are ALWAYS hollow made.

The item showed in the pic is therefore clearly an upgraded 4th class.

So what would the verdict be for above cross? Fake zinker? Is it worth faking? Prices for both bronze and zinc are almost identical.

Maybe made in the 30ies by a non-Bavarian maker? Godet, Maybauer?

As I understand it, the original zinc or war metal crosses had iron swords.

100% true. No exceptions.

Very good piece of information. Do you by chance know when were the other makers authorized? Weiss, Hemmerle, Lauer and Deschler?

1. Hausinger 1845 - 1876

2. Elchinger took over Hausinger, 1876 - 1892

3. Hemmerle took over Elchinger, since 1893, still in business

4. Quellhorst I. 1838 - 1868

5. Quellhorst II. 1868 - 1901

6. Weiß took over Quellhorst II. 1903 - 1930

7. Leser 1906, still in business as jewellers

Lauer no dates but still in business. Deschler no dates, maybe still in business.

By coincidence here's another etui from eBay. This time being sold with something that looks like MVO without swords.

Nice set but not matching. 1st type MVKs were awarded until 1905, J.Leser got his first contract to produce Bavarian medals in 1906.

Wow. What would it be next year for? 400 EUR?

Yes because it is worth 400 (already in this year!!) and if I had seen it before I had bought it for m uch more! Buying for low money is always a good thing and a good target but one should not forget how rare some things are and how the sales price of rare stuff is.

Great one! MVK 2nd class, 2nd modell... but I think I've seen the bar before and heard something even more special about it... ???

I had the name of the owner years ago but unfortunarley I lost it. All I know it must have been a Wachtmeister or Feldwebel from Braunschweig, this is all I remember. I got the group about 10 or 12 years ago for really extremely small money at a German medal show in Illingen. Maybe somebody of the medal bar experts can trace it, would be great, many thx in advance.

I would think it was awarded 1913/14 just before WW1, maybe the winner was a member of an official Braunschweig delegation visiting Bavaria? The body of the medal is markew G.H., no silver mark but I have never seen the backside as the medal is sewn on and I do not want to cut it off.

What do you guys thiink abiut this medal bar?