Peter J

Hi Mike,

The general essence of what your saying is undisputed, also very nicely put. Research is important and questioning the obvious is not a good way of collecting. The more information I collect, the easier it is to form an opinion of my own. If something on the other hand doesn't make any sense to me, I'll follow it up. I remember what Frank said once: "Anyone can write a book".

My question about "general knowledge" was not related to the actual badge, only the specific production method of drilled through pins. I consider myself an amateur, but in more than 30 years of collecting, I became aware of this type just a year ago. A reference to veterans is a good start, as we both know not always rock solid proof though. Information found in reference books is another, great source but not always correct. And of course this great F orum.

Here's a small reminder that information should always be analyzed, regardless of how old it is. This image was published in The Medal Collector, Official publication of the Orders and Medals Society of America, June 1964. Since there were no other specimen available for comparison, this piece was tentatively classified as 1b. We all know nowdays that this is a fairy tail, but this info was undisputed until at least 1968 in this very monthly publication.

KR

Peter

Hi Mike,

I know you are familiar with these badges and I'm not in any way challenging your statement, but could you please elaborate about the "Known genuine" a bit further i.g. when did this info become public knowledge. This is still a "grayish" area for me, but in light of the "Wernstein-affair" I need more input that just a reference to Hormann to form an opinion of my own.

KR

Peter

These are difficult badges and I'll not comment on this specific piece, but the rivet issue is worth mentioning. Until just recently I'd never seen any numbered badge with the rivets coming through on the obverse. Therefor I was rather surprised when one was declared "kosher" on the WAF. There is also one pictured in Detlev's new book.

The numbered GAB's and PAB's are very elaborately designed and manufactured (although made exclusively in zink) and "spoiling" such a nice appearence with two rivets doesn't make any sense to me. Just my two bits.

KR

Peter

Hi Kurt,

I know Osang produced Feinzink Ground Assualt, but I haven't seen this one before either. What bugs me is the hinge and catch-plate, also the rounded edges.

I believe this is a reproduction with an intent to resemble the R.K. or M.U.k. 41 design in regards of the the three rivets and the wide pin. I would pass on it, or at least hear what the "gurus" have to say

KR

Peter

Gordon, I see that you found a 3rd class . One small observation,

when looking at the obverse on both your's and mine, they appear to be

in silver, obviously due to the scanning. The reverse on mine shows the same

pale gilding you refer to on the 4th class, whereas your reverse on your's seems to be silver. Both the reverse and obverse on mine are actually gilded and I take it

your's is as well. I'm making this remark in order to avoid any doubts amongst new collectors about the gilding on 3rd class

KR

Peter

Reverse

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I can live with that too

900 bucks!!! Well, I can live with that

KR

Peter

Thanks for your input John

KR

Peter

Maker mark L 56.

Regards,

Pete

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Gentlemen, I thought this was a discussion forum, where are all the LW buffs

KR

Peter

Hi Pete,

My knowledge in these is limited, but this one is new to me. Late war without any catch-plate, no integrated cross in the middle and solid swords, not correct in my book. Perhaps it's the same guys who produced this one, to my opinion equally bad.

KR

Peter

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Sorry, missed posting the image.

Hi Pete,

My knowledge in these is limited, but this one is new to me. Late war without any catch-plate, no integrated cross in the middle and solid swords, not correct in my book. Perhaps it's the same guys who produced this one, to my opinion equally bad.

KR

Peter

Ralph, that's a mourning cross 4th class. These came only in 4th class and was given to relatives. Here's a 1939 version.

KR

Peter

Hi Sal

That's a strange looking mini. Apart from the "pelican's" head, the rest is almost identical to the regular size. I don't have this mini (swapped it ) but it's interesting to see the images in Messing's book. On the regular size there are three rows of windows with borders. The 25mm has the two top rows without borders, whereas the 16mm has three rows, also without borders.

KR

Peter

Possibly from the same maker (note the basketweave button),  3 piece EKII.

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Tom, that's an absolute gem . I've never seen a 3-piece 16mm EK mini, which I presume this is. The details are unbelievably great.

Here are a few assorted pieces.

KR

Peter

Here is the Steinhauer cased mini RK set. One on buttonhole fitting with ribbon, and the other two in stickpin form along with a KVK1 with Swords.

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Gordon, I loved the mini RK in the smaller case that you showd us, but this one is absolutely stunning Thanks a lot for sharing. Here's my small contribution.

KR

Peter

For the moment, I can only dream of a ribbon bar with all three of the NSDAP long service medals...

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So do I . I picked this one up several years ago, before I learned about our "friend" in Ohio

KR

Peter

I checked the date on my 2nd class w/o swords and guess what Rick, I believe you're right about the rarity of 1st class KVK w/o swords doc's, but the A4 size seems to be easier finding than w/s. Been looking for one for quite some time.

KR

Peter

Rick, that's the quality I was referring to, thanks for sharing .

Now that we're on the subject suspension rings, here are some reflections of mine. Gordon showed a beautiful RK of the KVK miniature in a previous thread.

That one featured the angled bars characteristic for the RK. I've noticed crosses for sale on various sites that had the normal suspension ring and attached to a similar button as Gordon's, being offered as RK's. I believe these are not correct, rather 1st class KVK's, initially manufactured for wear on a chain, mounted on a button to increase the value.

KR

Peter

Any single stickpin (like an EK) should be "read" as a 2nd Class-- if there was a 1st class, then there would be TWO worn together, like on the combination   pins.

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Rick, that's an interesting thought. A rather strange situation could accure when two individuals were awarded this cross, one with the pin version and one with the one posted below, if wiewed side by side. The latter is offered on a German sales site as a 2nd class.

KR

Peter

nice one from anhalt! 

but wasn't the 1. Klasse not something like a bit "unofficial"?

i have believe that there was something about the first class - does someone know more?

christian

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Thanks Chris you partycrasher You could be right though, Nimmergut doesn't refer to it as a 1st class, but rather a Steckkreuz.

K?ss

Peter

Another nicely vaulted, thanks Gerd

KR

Peter

Like I said, mine is probably resoldered. The ones illustrated in Messing's book are all with the same suspension setup as your's, contrary to the ones in full size. I don't think there is a general rule on thism merely variations. Here are two similar medals with different setup.

KR

Peter

Here are two miniatures I'd like to share with you guys. The smaller of them is a standard 16mm (15.96) and the larger is what I believe a privat manufacture 18.26mm. This is one of the nicest minis I've ever encountered, die struck and handpolished highlights.

KR

Peter

Hi Andy,

Here's one for comparison. The suspension ring is probably resoldered, but the details are stunning. Although I collect minis, I'm still looking for the 2nd class 16mm in both classes. The ones I've seen though, didn't lack the quality of their bigger brothers. I'm not quite sure I see that quality in your's, but as always, that's just me . Btw, what happened to the ribbon on the WMM

KR

Peter

I suppose you guys have realized by know that I'm a sucker for these small beauties . Two more 16mm miniatures with different features.

KR

Peter