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Photo 2

Gentlemen,

My family recently found a collection of WWII souviners hidden in a closet by my late grandfather-in-law. While I could identify most things (nothing real earthshaking) there are two swords that I can't ID. There are similar looking pieces on this and other sites, but all are slightly different...gild vs. silver finish, some with different handle decoration, etc. It appears from my initial excursion into German WWII swords that pretty much everyone was allowed a sword of some kind!!!!

I'm listing the photos of the two pieces in two different listings for clarity. We are not selling the items we found, but would like to identify them for the familiy members who will be getting them. I would appreciate any help the members can provide.

Thanks,

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jholl72,

It looks like a sewing machine did alot of the stitching. That dates it to the mid-19th Century at the earliest, but the sewing style appears much newer than that. I'd date it to post-1950.

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Peter J,

I just realized I did not post a photo of why I think this has an Austrian connection. There may not be one, but it was the first thing I thought of when I saw your photo.

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anyhow, i have a few further masonic items somewhere (all related to seattle from the 1890s thru the 1930s) and will post them as they turn up.

Eric,

Your mention of Seattle may be a clue to the ring. The "animal" design is similar to some of the Native American designs I have seen in use in the Seattle area. (Used to live out there) Plus, with the letter "S", this might be a school ring. Any Seattle school grads on the forum???

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Eric,

As Mike said, it is a great ring, but no indication of a Masonic connection. I'm familiar with a lot of the US fraternal insignia, symbols, etc., and I can't recall any significant use of a dragon by any of them. And I can't speak for other Blue Lodges, but mine never had an "enforcer", unless it was the brother who taught me my degree work.

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scottplen

What you have is a nice original Navy GCM, with the engraving typical of this period. As to the information on the reverse;

CSC means Continuous Service Certificate. It is not a rank (or rate, to be correct for the Navy). The number after CSC is his CSC number. The CSC was a real certificate issued to sailors who applied for Continuous Service. Every ship or station where they served was listed, all re-enlistments shown, general health data, etc. Much like a modern service records jacket.The idea started in the Royal Navy and was adopted by the US Navy about 1870 as a reward for good behavior. Being a CS sailor gave you special privileges including the right to take time off between re-enlistments and to be paid for it. A radical idea in the civilian world, but it was a method to try to keep experienced sailors in the service. It also had responsibilities, as bad conduct, desertion, and other negative behavior could cause you to lose those privileges. The CSC was NOT a serial number or service number as we know it today, and is next to useless as a research tool. However there is usually a service file on most of these guys and you should be able to get it.

The sailor?s name is obvious.

The USS Connecticut was an early US battleship and her history can be easily found on the danfs website (Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships). She was one of the ships that made up the Great White Fleet on their around-the-world cruise, if my memory serves.

The date December 9, 1910 is the date that Harry Weener completed his enlistment.

A nice gift, well worth taking the time to research.

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PeterJ,

From the helmet design I would say it's Austrian, but nothing I've seen before. What is the size and what does the back look like?

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Miguel,

A nice group, which unfortunately seldom survive being broken up. As far as Hendrik's observation that "the last one in the row shouldn't be there as the higher class of the decoration only is supposed to be worn." He's correct, but as with many others, firemen often want to wear everything they have won. I have a similar group, with the same "problem". But he won them, and wore them...and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Thanks for showing them... and it is a nice display.

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Thanks to all who rplied about the Schwarzenbach badge. Sorry I didn't post any information with the original photo, but I knew nothing about it. It came with some other "dog tag" style police tags, and as a fire collector I have (until now) had no basis to even begin looking for information. Thanks to all.

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JensF - You're welcome. Glad I could offer some information.

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JensF.

Your medal is typical of a post-World War II US Navy GCM. The name and date are actually stamped into the planchet, not engraved. Prior to the war, the USN engraved all of the GCM's with the name of the sailor and the year he qualified for the award. The Navy stopped issuing GCM's in early 1942 as a war economy measure and to cut the paperwork necessary to process non-essential activities. At the end of the war the Navy decided to eliminate the expensive engraving (especially considering the quanity of medals waiting to be processed) and went to using a stamping machine.

While your medal is correct, the ribbon has been replaced. Your medal would have been issued with a ribbon and suspension as shown in the photo. The Navy stopped naming medals in 1953. The photo is of an un-named example issued from 1953 until they stopped using that style of suspension in about 1960.

You might be able to get some information on your medal recipient by checking the online Social Security database.

Thanks for posting it,

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Thank you Gordon, Ulsterman and Rick.

As always, the members help to make something nice, even better.

Anyone with anything else to add, the information would be appreciated.

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Gordon,

Thanks for the response on the medal bar and the information regarding the awarding of the different classes of the Fire Protection Medal. I was assuming a recipient moved from the lower to the higher grades. And, you're right, he may just have run out of room.

I'm anxious to learn about the Excellent Labor decoration. I had trouble finding any ready reference to that one.

I was aware of the 1958 date being generic to that award, but I had apparently misread earlier posts by Zsolt (# 16 & 18) that seemed to connect the reverse lettering to the type of service. After rereading them, I see I was mistaken. However, it's interesting that the awards on my bar have the Type I lettering referenced by Zsolt as being on the medals using the squared suspension ribbon style. Perhaps my recipient upgraded to the triangles.

As far as ribbons go, the two Fire Protection Medals on the bar have a lose weave to them. I have other examples of this award in my collection, and they all have the ribbon weave usually found on this medal.

Thanks,

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Thanks Rick,

That seemed a good possibility given the frequency of other European flood control medals.

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My questions;

- What is the medal in the middle?

- I?ve seen the Medal for Excellent Labor Results identified as being from the Ministry of Energy as well as from other organizations. What is the actual basis of this award?

- If the recipient received the gold and silver classes of the Fire Protection Medal, why not a bronze class?

Thanks,

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There is also an award in the middle of the bar that I can?t identify. I am thinking a possible flood control medal, or some other kind of disaster service. The reverse is plain.

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Medal for Excellent Labor Results

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There are four decorations; an Order of Labor 3rd Class; a Medal for Excellent Labor Results, and two standard Fire Protection Medal awards, in gold and silver grade (each 35mm).

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There are the standard post-1974, 5,10,15 & 20 year long service medals. They share the same reverse, which I believe is for Volunteer Fireman Service.

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Here is my contribution to the Hungarian Fire Medals discussion. I just got this nine medal bar, and assuming it?s a real group rather than a put-together-for-sale set, it seems what might be a standard volunteer firemans set of awards. I just have a couple of questions of my own that someone may be able to answer.

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